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 Post subject: help for identification
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:39 am 
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Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 11:52 am
Posts: 72
Location: france
Happy new year for all the forum folowers


I need identification for the folowing items.

Thank you in advance

Louis Dubreuil


Attachments:
File comment: I suppose this is a batak ulos
batakulos02r.JPG
batakulos02r.JPG [ 164.11 KiB | Viewed 3388 times ]
File comment: i suppose this is a batak ulos
batakulos01r.JPG
batakulos01r.JPG [ 257.88 KiB | Viewed 3388 times ]
File comment: I suppose it can be a yao belt or a baby carrier
belt01r.JPG
belt01r.JPG [ 198.65 KiB | Viewed 3388 times ]
File comment: I suppose this is a yao apron
apronr.JPG
apronr.JPG [ 197.84 KiB | Viewed 3388 times ]
File comment: I suppose this can be a yao coat
coat01br.JPG
coat01br.JPG [ 236.2 KiB | Viewed 3388 times ]
File comment: I suppose this can be a yao coat
coat 01r.JPG
coat 01r.JPG [ 165.86 KiB | Viewed 3388 times ]
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 Post subject: identification part two
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:43 am 
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Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 11:52 am
Posts: 72
Location: france
Identification again

Louis Dubreuil


Attachments:
File comment: indian wedding veil ?
indianveilr.JPG
indianveilr.JPG [ 301.39 KiB | Viewed 3391 times ]
File comment: filipina short trousers ?
filipinatrouserr.JPG
filipinatrouserr.JPG [ 328.37 KiB | Viewed 3391 times ]
File comment: filipina belt ?
filipinabeltr.JPG
filipinabeltr.JPG [ 197.65 KiB | Viewed 3391 times ]
File comment: filipina belt ?
filipinabelt02r.JPG
filipinabelt02r.JPG [ 271.65 KiB | Viewed 3391 times ]
File comment: birman cloth ?
cloth02r.JPG
cloth02r.JPG [ 207.59 KiB | Viewed 3391 times ]
File comment: Birman cloth ?
cloth01r.JPG
cloth01r.JPG [ 220.26 KiB | Viewed 3391 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:49 am 
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Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 11:52 am
Posts: 72
Location: france
again


Attachments:
File comment: tubular skirt from where
tubularskirt05r.JPG
tubularskirt05r.JPG [ 146.24 KiB | Viewed 3388 times ]
File comment: tubular skirt from where 5
tubularskirt05br.JPG
tubularskirt05br.JPG [ 147.46 KiB | Viewed 3388 times ]
File comment: tubular skirt from where 3
tubularskirt03r.JPG
tubularskirt03r.JPG [ 180.21 KiB | Viewed 3388 times ]
File comment: tubular skirt from where 2
tubularskirt02.JPG
tubularskirt02.JPG [ 237.7 KiB | Viewed 3388 times ]
File comment: tubular skirt from where ?
tubularskirt01r.JPG
tubularskirt01r.JPG [ 291.47 KiB | Viewed 3388 times ]
File comment: laos ?
laossilkclothdetailr.JPG
laossilkclothdetailr.JPG [ 343.99 KiB | Viewed 3388 times ]
File comment: laos silk wavin ?
laossilkclothr.JPG
laossilkclothr.JPG [ 143.58 KiB | Viewed 3388 times ]
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 Post subject: identification, the end
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:52 am 
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Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 11:52 am
Posts: 72
Location: france
and where can come from this special man vest ?
Ther is a an over vest, an under vest and a special fiber gilet.

May be viet nam ?

thank you in advance

louis Dubreuil


Attachments:
vietnamcostumer.JPG
vietnamcostumer.JPG [ 176.19 KiB | Viewed 3392 times ]
vietnamcostumebr.JPG
vietnamcostumebr.JPG [ 201.9 KiB | Viewed 3392 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:00 am 
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Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 1:01 am
Posts: 246
Location: Japan
Louis, A lot of lovely textiles, some without numbers which makes it difficult to tell you where they are from but I will try to give you info on some of them. I wonder if the first jacket might be from Borneo. This is just a guess and I am not sure. Tubular skirt 01 is probably southern Laos. Tubular skirt 02 is from Ende, Flores Island, Indonesia. Skirt 03 is probably from Thailand. Skirt 05 is a Lau Hada from Sumba Island, Indonesia but may not be very old and the beadwork may have been added to a plain daily skirt recently to increase its value. Belt 02 is from Timor Island, Indonesia as is the yellow sash following it. I will let Pamela comment on the Batak and embroidered costumes as I am not as familiar with these. Hope this helps.

Best regards


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:04 am 
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Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 1:01 am
Posts: 246
Location: Japan
Louis, The short trousers are from Mindanao, Philippines and probably B'laan. I am guessing they are abaca with embroidery and probably just before or just after WW II,

Best


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:08 am 
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Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 1:01 am
Posts: 246
Location: Japan
Louis, Are the three bands on the bottom of the first jacket embroidery? What about the panel in the back? Is it a separate panel sewn in or all part of the back, perhaps woven in as tapestry? Is the inner vest made of bark cloth or cotton? Do you have a photo of the three pieces separately? That might help us figure out where they are from. Do you have a close-up photo of the center of the back of the outer jacket? Perhaps more information about where and when these jackets were collected would help identify them. Are they part of your collection? Thanks!!

Best


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:17 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:42 pm
Posts: 1989
Location: Canterbury, UK
Louis, MAC

I have just amalgamated all Louis' 4 topics on identification plus MAC's responses into one topic thread so that the responses can make a bit more sense.

I will get back to the Batak and some others when I can draw breath!

What a cornucopia of textiles! Thanks, Louis!

Best,

_________________
Pamela

http://www.tribaltextiles.info
on-line tribal textiles resource


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 Post subject: unknown jacket
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 11:52 am
Posts: 72
Location: france
here are details of tjis jacket
the inner shirt is made of coarse fiber weaving with natural color.
The embroideries are directly made on the cloth of the jacket

cordialement

Louis


Attachments:
jacket detail03.JPG
jacket detail03.JPG [ 322.09 KiB | Viewed 3357 times ]
jacket detail 02r.JPG
jacket detail 02r.JPG [ 242.72 KiB | Viewed 3357 times ]
jacket detail 01r.JPG
jacket detail 01r.JPG [ 281.6 KiB | Viewed 3357 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: unknown jacket
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 1:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 11:52 am
Posts: 72
Location: france
here is an other picture


Attachments:
jacket detail04.JPG
jacket detail04.JPG [ 253.71 KiB | Viewed 3357 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:16 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:32 pm
Posts: 9
Location: France
Bonjour, Hi Louis and MAC,

The batakulos01r.JPG is an ulos sibolang si lima tuho, with 5 rows of ikat patterns. I have in my collection a very similar one. Where is the origin of your piece ? See the Sandra Niessen's book "Legacy in cloth" for details, page 179.

Remy


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:57 am 
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Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 11:52 am
Posts: 72
Location: france
Bonjour Rémy

there are differences between the two ulos
the blue one has a quite stiff touch, like it had been starched
the other is very soft (a little silky) with a finer weaving

Cordialement

louis


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:27 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:42 pm
Posts: 1989
Location: Canterbury, UK
I agree with Remy about the ID of the sibolang si lima tuho. The other ulos - both of these are Toba Batak ulos - is an ulos mangiring It has arrowhead warp ikat which is traditional for the mangiring and was usually worn over the shoulder by young girls or used as a baby carrier. If you go to the page http://www.tribaltextiles.info/articles ... ection.htm you will see several Toba Batak ulos including both a sibolang si lima tuho and a mangiring. If you click on the images you will see enlargements with a few comments.

When the textiles were woven the thread will have been treated starch to help with the weaving - usually dipped in rice water or similar. This will wear out through use. The mangiring was probably used more often than the sibolang. It may also depend on the threads and the dyeing of them. My mangiring (from first decade of 20th century) feels lighter than the couple of sibolangs that I have. The indigo dye coating on the threads (as is the way of indigo dyeing) may give it more 'texture'. See a picture of a Toba Batak funeral http://www.tribaltextiles.info/articles ... uneral.htm A sibolang is being worn by the man standing in the centre of the photo (he was then the husband of the eldest grandchild of the deceased) and a man near the foot of the coffin is holding up a sibolang perhaps about to cover the body with it.

Yes, the key book is Sandra Niessen's 'Legacy in cloth: Batak textiles of Indonesia' although it is almost not available any more. (See http://www.bataktextiles.com/projects/Legacy.html for info on the book.)

_________________
Pamela

http://www.tribaltextiles.info
on-line tribal textiles resource


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:41 am 
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Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 11:52 am
Posts: 72
Location: france
dear Pam

thank you very much for all those precisions about ulos
It will be very helpfull for making technical files for my collection

there are still some other pieces without commentaries ....

Thank you in advance for your efforts

Amicalement

Louis Dubreuil


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:42 pm
Posts: 1989
Location: Canterbury, UK
Louis,

Your textile 'I suppose it can be a yao belt or a baby carrier' file belt01r.JPG does indeed look to be Yao (usual term used in China) or Mien, usual term used for groups outside China because it is felt to be a less derogatory term. As you do not give dimensions it is difficult to determine exactly what it is. One of the best reference books is Jess G Pourret's book "The Yao: The Mien and Mun Yao in China, Vietnam, Laos and Thailand". Also see Paul and Elaine Lewis' book "Peoples of the Golden Triangle" which includes a section - Chapter 5 - on the Mien (Yao).

I think this might be a sash. It is somewhat similar (although the edge embroidery is only at the ends and not up the sides) to page 113 in the Pourret book where the ID is 'Kim Mien Red Yao from Lao Ca area, Vietnam, and Yunnan'.

The apron, the image of which follows, 'I suppose this is a yao apron' does, indeed, look to be Yao/Mien and might be from the same group as the sash. Difficult to tell as the embroidery is creased in the ties of the apron but the designs look similar to the those in the sash.

The coat 'I suppose this can be a yao coat' does look to be Yao/Mien. I am not sure which group/branch. As Jess Pourret says: "All Mien and Mun women from any branch or group in China and elsewhere use a similar tunic as their upper garment." I think it is a somewhat later one with the market fabric used on the sleeve cuffs as well as the hue of the dyes of the embroidery. Could well be from Vietnam but that is guessing :)! See a somewhat similar coat from the Sa Pa area in Vietnam from 1995 http://www.tribaltextiles.info/Gallerie ... nority.htm

Best,

_________________
Pamela

http://www.tribaltextiles.info
on-line tribal textiles resource


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