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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:31 pm 
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Jain merchants in Rajasthan used to twine cotton bags that had one or two lines of writing. You can read more about them in:

DW Fraser P Collingwood. "Kurji and paket: inscribed twined bags of Jain itinerant merchants in western Rajasthan" The Textile Museum Journal 1997-1998: 48-59.

David Fraser


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File comment: Paket (single bag) made by Multana s/o Shiv Lalani in 1940.
DWF #3.jpg
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 Post subject: Thai writing
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:15 pm 
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Location: Honolulu Hawaii
Issan silk tube skirt have writing in Thai and some number. I thought it was interesting.


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File comment: number 1
SNV36798.JPG
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:27 am 
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Location: Canterbury, UK
Hi Effi

Yes, definitely interesting! Is the decoration embroidery or ikat? I can't imagine doing the tying for ikat yet it does look like it?

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http://www.tribaltextiles.info
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:00 pm 
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Hi Pamela

No this is Ikat i show some more detail photos. I hope I could understand the writing. Some one can help translating , I will appreciate it.


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File comment: n3
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File comment: n2
SNV36803.JPG
SNV36803.JPG [ 287.24 KiB | Viewed 3996 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:22 pm 
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Very many thanks Effi,

My brain now has to believe what my eyes first suspected!

How I wish the textile could 'speak' - and not just the writing/numbers in the ikat - to give us the background behind the text and numbers. There is nothing spontaneous about the laborious ikat tying technique so there must be a very considered reason behind it.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:44 am 
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Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Effi- What a curious piece! I cannot translate the writing, tho will show some Thai friends who probably can decipher it. The numbers are a year date: 2530 in the Buddhist calendar used in Thailand would correspond to 1987, as the dating is 543 years older than the Gregorian system. It does boggle the mind that this is executed in ikat (mut mee in Thai). The maker was probably commemorating something special- maybe a wedding. The image is a peacock, tho I'm not familiar with any special meaning conferred to peacocks. Hope this helps a little.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:09 am 
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Location: Japan
Hi all, This is just a wild guess but I believe the Thai calendar is calculated from when they think Buddha was born (543BC) making this year in Thailand 2555. If the 530 number refers to the date 2530 which is perhaps when this textile was produced then the skirt is 25 years old. Maybe Susan can get someone to read the writing and give us a better idea than my wild guess.
This skirt also seems to be what the Japanese call TAMAMUSHI, the name of a bug that is iridescent and appears to be different colors depending on your angle of view. In textiles this refers to a cloth that has a warp of one color and a weft of another and seems to change between the two depending on your angle of view or the angle of the light reflected from the cloth. This cloth seems to have a blue warp and the purple weft carring the ikat pattern and can appear blue or purple depending on the angle of view. Best regards, MAC


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:02 am 
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Thank you Susan Mac and Pamella for your insight. Mac you right the ikat have two colors depending from the direction you looking at it. Here some additional close up photos to confirm that. Effi


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File comment: 7
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File comment: 6
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File comment: 5
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SNV36805.JPG [ 365.59 KiB | Viewed 3954 times ]
File comment: 4
SNV36803.JPG
SNV36803.JPG [ 287.24 KiB | Viewed 3954 times ]
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 Post subject: Pidan with writing
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:25 am 
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Hi all, Do the Thai and Cambodians use the same alphabet? Can anyone read or translate the writing in these two pidan textiles from Cambodia? Any ideas about how the width differences in the pattern repeats of the first pidan occurred or the age of these pidan would also be welcome. Best regards, MAC

I guess my file comment for the 3rd photo was too long as it didn't all upload. It should continue: and the point of weaving. Any other ideas about how these width differences may have occurred would be most welcome. Thanks again


Attachments:
File comment: The writing is repeated 9 times and I don't know if it should be read from the right or left. Probably the left.
pidan_with_writing_all_w.jpg
pidan_with_writing_all_w.jpg [ 125.26 KiB | Viewed 3560 times ]
File comment: Folded like paper dolls the basic unit motif that was ikated is 1/9th of the overall pattern, half a figure and half of the writing. Small width differences in pattern repeats may be due to minor losses of weft thread somewhere between the end of dyeing a
pidan_with_writing_up-w.jpg
pidan_with_writing_up-w.jpg [ 111.7 KiB | Viewed 3560 times ]
File comment: The basic unit motif fold line is between the elephants and the writing repeated twice in reverse as the elephants are
Pidan with writing 2.jpg
Pidan with writing 2.jpg [ 31.95 KiB | Viewed 3555 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:18 pm 
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Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Hi MAC- I cannot answer your questions other than to say that Thai and Cambodian/Khmer alphabets are not the same, nor are the languages. Maybe someone else can shed more light on your other queries, or possibly translate the writing.

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Susan Stem

http://www.tribaltrappings.com
http://tribaltrappings.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject: Hi Mac.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:47 pm 
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I am a little concern about the age of your pidan. I was recently offered these 2 Pidans extremely fine weave about 3 meters long i almost bought them. but I was told by a friend that they are reproductions woven by a few master weavers in Cambodia. In any event I will post the photos of the 2 pieces for reference.


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File comment: 1
IMG_2650.JPG
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 Post subject: Hi Mac.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:42 am
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I am a little concern about the age of your pidan. I was recently offered these 2 Pidans extremely fine weave about 3 meters long i almost bought them. but I was told by a friend that they are reproductions woven by a few master weavers in Cambodia. In any event I will post the photos of the 2 pieces for reference.


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File comment: 2
IMG_2652.JPG
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:41 am 
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Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Effi is right- pidan of this style tend to be of recent (relatively speaking) production- probably post-Khmer Rouge revolution/after the late 1970's. I rarely see figures represented on old pidan. Also colors are different- newer ones are brighter: the reds are brighter and more red, rather than that achieved with stick lac; greens are not bright either and tend toward olive or a dark, forest green. Often they are bordered with a rolled silk edge in gold color. At least that is my experience- I have had the privilege of seeing quite a few old pieces in a local collection.

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Susan Stem

http://www.tribaltrappings.com
http://tribaltrappings.blogspot.com/


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