tribaltextiles.info

It is currently Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:06 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:24 am
Posts: 10
Location: Thailand, Sydney and Sicily
Discovered your wonderful website and forum by doing a google search for Indigo and Batik, came across Chris Buckley's site and then here.

Last week I picked up this rather tattered piece in Bangkok, it was being used by the vendor as a showcloth, not as part of her typical textiles for sale. The cotton is very thin and soft, so worn it's almost translucent. She claimed it was batik, but I'm not sure. Was this stencilled? Printed?

I can post further detailed photos if that would help. Thanks!


Attachments:
Indigo textile-1.JPG
Indigo textile-1.JPG [ 55.15 KiB | Viewed 9006 times ]

_________________
http://EBriel.com
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:45 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:42 pm
Posts: 1989
Location: Canterbury, UK
Hi Elizabeth

Thanks for your kind words! (Love your pictures on your website of the Penang shop house - wonderful atmosphere.)

Very much like your textile. Can you please post some details. It is very difficult to know if it is stencil or batik - 'wax knife' in China. Could well be the latter. I love the swirls in the design.

Best,

_________________
Pamela

http://www.tribaltextiles.info
on-line tribal textiles resource


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:24 am
Posts: 10
Location: Thailand, Sydney and Sicily
Here are some detail shots, they may give a better idea of the piece.

Total size is approx 1.25 x 1.5 meters.


Attachments:
light indigo texture 2.JPG
light indigo texture 2.JPG [ 56.41 KiB | Viewed 8973 times ]
light indigo texture.JPG
light indigo texture.JPG [ 51.35 KiB | Viewed 8973 times ]
light indigo frayed.JPG
light indigo frayed.JPG [ 43.96 KiB | Viewed 8973 times ]
light indigo edges.JPG
light indigo edges.JPG [ 59.42 KiB | Viewed 8973 times ]
light indigo edge 2.JPG
light indigo edge 2.JPG [ 49.75 KiB | Viewed 8973 times ]

_________________
http://EBriel.com
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:22 am
Posts: 65
Location: germany
Hello,

I'm no expert, but the regularity of the pattern in the images of the border suggests to me that wax was applied using a stencil. The way the blue in that area is all connected would also speak for that.

Maybe repeated design elements in the center can be shown to be identical, also mirrored - or maybe not. Of course, there could also be some free-hand waxing in the field.

Regards, Larry


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:24 am
Posts: 10
Location: Thailand, Sydney and Sicily
Thanks, Larry.

Any idea where this could have been made? Looks possibly like a Rao Jia but I'd be interested to know your opinions. The dealer had no clue aside from "China"

Thanks!

_________________
http://EBriel.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:22 am
Posts: 65
Location: germany
Hi Ebreil,

I have no idea at all, really know nothing about the textiles usually shown on Tribal Textiles, although I find it all very interesting and am envious of those live or often visit the areas.

I am more interested in textile and dying techniques, hence my comment. Pamela had already suggested stencil as a possibility. Maybe she or someone else knows more about where stenciling was/is used.

Regards, Larry


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 6:34 pm
Posts: 393
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Hi Elizabeth-
Thank you for sharing these handsome pieces. I can see how you were attracted to them, considering your interest in cyanotypes- the colors are similar.

I am not knowledgeable about the use of stencils in China, however, it seems that the closeup photos have a clue that this is most likely made with a stencil rather than batik: on "light indigo edge 2" one can see that the thick-lined meander designs are connected to their borders by occasional small rectangles centered with a circle; these would be used on a stencil to keep it all in one piece. A resist material would have been applied onto the stencil, with it going thru the holes and those areas would have remained white when dyed, while the indigo would go thru the areas that were closed on the stencil. There would be no need of connecting motifs like the ones here if batik were used. What I'm not sure of is whether the elaborate designs in the central part are connected to the same stencil, or whether they are done somehow separately, assuming that is even possible. Could batik have been combined with a stenciled border? I can't say... but maybe someone else out there could weigh in on this.

I hope this makes sense...

_________________
Susan Stem

http://www.tribaltrappings.com
http://tribaltrappings.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 1:01 am
Posts: 246
Location: Japan
Hi all, Could this textile have been resisted with two stencils? One for the central, horizontal patterns including the outer border motifs. The second for the top and bottom, horizontal patterns, with outer border motifs, which look like they are identical. There seem to be breaks or distortions in the vertical border motifs just where the stencils would have met each other. The top and bottom border motifs seem to be very clear without breaks or distortions.

The cotton looks like it might be homespun in the close-up. I wonder about the size of the cloth and if it is one piece or panels sewn together?

Best regards, MAC


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:24 am
Posts: 10
Location: Thailand, Sydney and Sicily
Hi MAC and Susan, thanks for your input.

Susan your explanation makes sense. In another textile I posted here http://www.tribaltextiles.info/communit ... php?t=1638 it looks like stencil was used, but with a much less elaborate and cruder application.

MAC from stencil work I've seen - interior decor projects - there would probably have been several stencils used rather than a single large piece. That way if one part gets damaged the rest are still usable.

_________________
http://EBriel.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:22 am
Posts: 65
Location: germany
It would be nice if dimensions were given for images, for whole pieces and details.

I envisage that the border was made with two stencils. one for the corners, and one that was used repeatedly between the corners, having one, two or three of the rectangular elements. That could be confirmed or refuted by a closer examination, allowing for the reversal of the stencil.

I agree with Susan, that the resist/wax was stenciled, allowing the indigo to dye the rest.

It seems to me unlikely that stencils would have been large, rather smaller like block printing, a convenient substitute for tedious, repetitive hand drawing.

Any use of stencils wouldn't be for just one piece.

If the larger areas of the field can be seen to have been stenciled (by folding vertically, horizontally) the size of the stencil(s) could be measured. Larger stencils would suggest a more professional workshop.

But where?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:24 am
Posts: 10
Location: Thailand, Sydney and Sicily
Had thought I'd given the dimensions already but that was with other postings, not this one.

It's approx 1.5 x 1.25m

Dimensions of the details, sorry I've no measurement tape with me and can't hazard a guess, now I'm based between three continents and don't have complete household supplies anywhere.

I'm most interested in where it came from or who would have made it, as once I posted the photo and had a look at it thumbnail size, the stencil effect was quite noticeable.

There's something about the lining of this Turkomen jacket that brings this batik to mind: http://www.tribaltextiles.info/communit ... t=turkoman

_________________
http://EBriel.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Quilt Cover
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:24 am
Posts: 10
Location: Thailand, Sydney and Sicily
MAC,

As with these Rao Jia and Ge Jia quilt covers posted by Andrew, mine is made up of three panels: http://www.tribaltextiles.info/communit ... ht=rao+jia

_________________
http://EBriel.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 6:34 pm
Posts: 393
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Elizabeth et al-
Very interesting to compare this to the lining of the Turkoman coat. I am not exactly sure how the Turkoman coat is done, but I suspect it is also made using a paste resist. I think that in China stencils are used with a rice paste resist- by rice paste, I mean rice flour and water mixed to make a thick paste. I cannot seem to find any discussion of this in a cursory review of some books in my library, but will keep looking.

Regarding the size of the stencils: they can be huge! My friend Siripan Kidd has one that is 5-6' long by about 1.5'wide. I photographed two in the museum in Kaili (below); note part of one on the wall and one that is rolled below it. I think it is made of cow or water buffalo hide, as is Siripan's. Considering the shape of the stencil, it would seem that probably several would be used in a given textile, depending on shape and size of the textile.


Attachments:
File comment: Fabric and stencils in Kaili Museum, Guizhou province
Mail-Batik stencil-Kaili Museum21.jpg
Mail-Batik stencil-Kaili Museum21.jpg [ 79.41 KiB | Viewed 8823 times ]

_________________
Susan Stem

http://www.tribaltrappings.com
http://tribaltrappings.blogspot.com/
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:28 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:42 pm
Posts: 1989
Location: Canterbury, UK
Hi all,

Susan, that photo of the stencils is great. The part of the jacket gives a good sense of scale.

I contacted Andrew when Elizabeth first posted drawing his attention to these threads but I have no idea if he is able to answer. I think of him as our 'expert' in this although I think his focus is hand applied wax resist rather than stencil.

Very difficult to say where the stencil textile might be from other than very generally. I think it is China, probably S W China and perhaps Guizhou or Yunnan. I think there is a long standing tradition of resist dyeing on indigo adopted by many minority groups, especially the Miao but also others and even the Han. Which particular sub group of, say, the Miao might have made it I find pretty impossible to say. I know that Gina Corrigan has tried to get to seek out stencilling in S W China in the last few years but, I think, with little success. Now it is in factories. These do not look like factory pieces.

_________________
Pamela

http://www.tribaltextiles.info
on-line tribal textiles resource


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:30 am
Posts: 315
This piece has bugged me as I believed I had seen it before - until now. Definitely a stencil! See the attached images below which are so strikingly similar I can only assume it is taken from the same stencil! I am trying to get more information from the owner of this textile and will fill you in as this happens


Attachments:
Miao_horizontal.jpg
Miao_horizontal.jpg [ 307.17 KiB | Viewed 8804 times ]
Central_panel.jpg
Central_panel.jpg [ 275.92 KiB | Viewed 8804 times ]
Corner.jpg
Corner.jpg [ 284.34 KiB | Viewed 8804 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group