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 Post subject: Help with long jacket ID
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:32 pm 
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Hi all,

I recently came into posession, rather miraculously, of two embroidered long jackets that I just can't manage to ID with the limited resources I have. I know someone here will know where they are from, in fact I had saved another member's photo of one in their collection in my list of pieces to keep an eye out for. I dont have a camera right now, so please forgive me, I am going to post that very photo as an example. Any insight will be much appreciated! My two pieces are virtually identical to this one:


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File comment: Long embroidered jacket- not my photo, but an example. Mine look just like this one.
jacket_01.jpg
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:48 pm 
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Hi Tharpa

This is my jacket that I collected in Sa Pa, Lao Cai province, northern Vietnam in 1995. See http://www.tribaltextiles.info/Gallerie ... nority.htm for photo gallery of the village and the lady who embroidered it. The minority group is Dao/Yao.

A very good reference is Jess G Pourret's 2002 book: 'The Yao: The Mien and Mun Yao in China, Vietnam, Laos and Thailand' orginally published by River Books in Bangkok.

I started a post responding to your question and typing out a long and informative caption to a photo in this book - but one of my Siamese cats who wants her supper just caused chaos on my computer and I lost the post. I am going to feed her and then try again to type up the information!

Best,

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Pamela

http://www.tribaltextiles.info
on-line tribal textiles resource


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:37 pm 
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Pages 80 – 83 of Jess Pourret’s book on the Yao that I cited above show several photos of ‘Kim Mien, Dao Do, Red Yao (Sapa/Taphin area, Lao Cai, Vietnam)'. The (long) caption to fig 160 which shows an old black and white photo of a lady looking very similar to the ones in my photos gives quite a lot of background. I will attempt to type it out again!
Quote:
160. Kim Mien, Dao Do, Red Yao (Sapa area, Lao Cai province, Vietnam) early 1920s. This is an important Tapan sub-branch found in the Hekou area of southern Yunnan. Many groups and sub-groups have spread across the border to the nearby Lao Cai province of northern Vietnam with more sub-groups migrating south west towards the Phong Tho/Tam Duong areas, the Quynh Nhai area in Son La province and also Binh Iu and Than Yuen, Thu Le, respectively in southern Lao Cai and Yen Bai provinces. They used to shift fairly often in areas of 800-1,000 m, a lifestyle that has ended due to lack of land, and their economic situation has worsened. The number of sub-groups of the major Mien groups is also large. As the name Red Yao, implies, bright red predominates in their dress. Most maintain their numerous traditions and customs, a trait of Yao still living in the highlands compared with plains dwellers who tend to alter certain traditions. A similar photo could still be taken today without any changes in dress and ornaments. The shape of the bulging big red turban is typical of the Sapa/Taphin area.

Also typical is their tunic embroidered along the bottom at the back, the central dorsal patch of embroidery dedicated to Pan Hung under the row of red streamers and the embroidered cuffs. No red streamers hang on both sides of the waist. Furthermore, the bottoms of their trousers always have one or two small rows of ‘Som’ symbols below the first rows of large symbols as opposed to other Mien Yao who start with large symbols then alternate with rows of small ‘Som’ symbols. The number of rows of large symbols varies from one to three. They also wear fully embroidered long bibs, covered with silver half-moons and silver breast plates. They often wear a small, fully ornamental cape in winter times, along with pompon belts and small aprons. Traditional leggings are still worn today.


The caption to Figs 163 A-B has some similar information and
Quote:
‘....The traditional costume is worn by all women, regardless of age, all the time, even in the fields, so strong is their sense of identity. They are all superb embroiderers...’


The diary of my 1995 visit, the Sapa section can be found http://www.tribaltextiles.info/Diaries/ ... tm#Sa%20Pa I see that the village where I photographed the jacket which I bought and you posted was
Quote:
'a Red Dao village – Ta Pinh – a village of about 300 families. I was attracted to the clothes hanging on the washing line of one of the first houses in the village. We spoke to the family (of three generations – grandmother, daughter or daughter-in-law and mother to several children). I bought a very beautiful woman’s embroidered coat and a woman’s neck piece from the mother who had made and embroidered the garments.'


Hope that the foregoing gives you some background to your jackets.

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Pamela

http://www.tribaltextiles.info
on-line tribal textiles resource


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:56 pm 
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Wow, thank you so much! This information makes my acquisition of these jackets even more miraculous, since it doesn't seem that they're actually that easy to come by on the international market, coming from a smaller group as they do.

What does surprise me is their size- I am 5'5" and both the jackets reach nearly to the floor on me, though they fit well through the shoulders- they seem much shorter on the women in the photos, though it may be a stylistic difference? It's hard for me to judge why exactly they were made as they are- it appears that the embroidered sections may have actually been recycled from older coats, as the base colors of the fabric are slightly off from the jacket body. I am going to have to have some photos taken and post here for further opinions.

Thanks for all your help!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:46 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:42 pm
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If you look at the photos in the photogallery carefully you may see that often the women are wearing a belt over the coat or a baby carrier tied over the top. Both things will have the effect of shortening the jacket.

It is quite usual (amongst many minorities) to find that intricate pieces of embroidery are re-used in subsequent garments as it is a way of prolonging their life and getting a good return on the investment of all the time it took to create in the first place (to use western economic terminology!) It is often other parts of a garment which receive the heavy wear and the embroidered pieces can often survive in reasonable condition even when the rest of the textile is pretty unwearable except for 'working in the fields'. A garment will have many stages of life. When first made and all is fresh and new it will be used for special festivals. As it becomes more worn it decends down the pecking order of events. Probably a jacket which has re-used pieces of embroidery would not be use for very best and special events although this will depend on the financial state of the woman and her family and perhaps their closeness to the heart of an event.

Yes, please try and post photos here - the forum is all about sharing and enjoying!

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Pamela

http://www.tribaltextiles.info
on-line tribal textiles resource


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