tribaltextiles.info

It is currently Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:17 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:10 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:55 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Hello again. Pamela is kindly posting some photos of the interior embroidery details of this robe. Michael Goh has advised if the embroidery feels "tight and knobby," it could be old, if it is "fresh and loose," it could be new(er). I am far from a technical expert, but it feels more "tight and knobby," on manual manipulation, although there are long stitches intermixed with very tiny ones.

The embroidery actually looks older in the flesh, so to speak, than in the photos. Perhaps the boldness of the execution makes it appear "cleaner."
However, this could be wishful thinking on my part - I have only sewn a button or two on in my entire life, so I'll defer to the experts. I am hoping the construction of the garment and patterns of the interior stitching shall give clues.

Old or new(er), this robe speaks volumes on soul.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:49 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:42 pm
Posts: 1989
Location: Canterbury, UK
Herewith various images which Nina has taken of the interior of the robe:


Attachments:
IMG_2357w.jpg
IMG_2357w.jpg [ 61.69 KiB | Viewed 3351 times ]
IMG_2326w.jpg
IMG_2326w.jpg [ 76.9 KiB | Viewed 3351 times ]
IMG_2346w.jpg
IMG_2346w.jpg [ 81.13 KiB | Viewed 3351 times ]
IMG_2345w.jpg
IMG_2345w.jpg [ 73.12 KiB | Viewed 3351 times ]
IMG_2338w.jpg
IMG_2338w.jpg [ 72.18 KiB | Viewed 3351 times ]
IMG_2336w.jpg
IMG_2336w.jpg [ 74.84 KiB | Viewed 3351 times ]
IMG_2335w.jpg
IMG_2335w.jpg [ 79.57 KiB | Viewed 3351 times ]
IMG_2343w.jpg
IMG_2343w.jpg [ 73.27 KiB | Viewed 3351 times ]
IMG_2349w.jpg
IMG_2349w.jpg [ 85.75 KiB | Viewed 3351 times ]
IMG_2353w.jpg
IMG_2353w.jpg [ 74.08 KiB | Viewed 3351 times ]

_________________
Pamela

http://www.tribaltextiles.info
on-line tribal textiles resource
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:34 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Amsterdam
Wow, that is really a spectacular robe!

I have several Yao and Nung Daoist robes from southern Guangxi and northern Vietnam. None of them approach this one in opulence

However, are you sure it is "hemp", "linen" or any other bast fiber? I have never seen any Yao woven bast fiber textiles from mainland China or Southeast Asia. If this is a bast fiber robe it makes it all the more special. Please let me know if you have any more details.

My speciality is the study and collection of traditional hemp and other bast fiber weavings with a strong focus on the Himalayan foothills and Yunnan plateau.

Please feel free to contact me with any questions and observations you may have...

_________________
Robert C. Clarke
Textile Collector and Researcher
International Hemp Association - Projects Manager
Society for Economic Botany - Life Member
Textile Society of America - Member


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:55 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Dear Robert,

Thank you so much for your interesting response on the Yao robe. I do believe it is hemp, but I have not had a chance to test the robe for fibers and age. I'll keep you informed when I do. You may be interested in reading the next post from Ralph Litzinger, a Yao scholar from Duke University. Regards, Nina Williams


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:55 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Hello all, I am posting an email from Ralph Litzinger, with his permission. Ralph is a respected scholar on the Yao from Duke University. Please see his book OTHER CHINAS: THE YAO AND THE POLITICS OF BELONGING

Dear Nina,
Thank you for sending me these beautiful images, as they bring back many memories of my time with various kinds of Yao in south China. It would be hard to tell anything about material authenticity without touching the robe, and looking at the back, which may have a marking somewhere indicating who made it, or who it was made for (something I have seen before, though not always on all ritual robes). I also seem to recall once that there is a way to test the age of indigo dye, though I may have dreamed this up -- you might want to do a google search on this.

In terms of the iconography, and color schemes, I have to say this is very familiar, as I have seen many such robes just like this. Now it is possible that this is a reproduction of robes that were once readily available and ubiquitous (pre-Cultural Revolution especially) and were passed on from elderly priests to younger initiates. In the late 80s and 90s, at least in the area of Guangxi I worked, many of these robes had to be designed and reproduced from memory because so many of them had been lost, or burned, or buried and then never found. Does this make them any less authentic? Not in my mind, especially if they were "blessed" and then put into use for various rituals. It just means they are not as old as some stuff that might once have been available and part of everyday Yao ritual life. Finally, the Yao I knew were never into making reproductions of any ritual material for sale on commercial markets; if this is now going on, then I would say it is a new development.

I'd like to hear more about your travels in Yao country in south China and especially the county and village in which you bought this in Hunan. If you bought this among Mien-speaking Yao, I think you have yourself a nice piece of work. Please take good care of it.

all best, Ralph

* I responded to Ralph that I had purchased this robe through my main Beijing dealer/contact while she was on a trip to Kaili.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group