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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:12 pm 
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Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Thank you, Pamela, for your interesting observations on these two baby carriers!

Both Ann's carrier and mine have buttons at the top. It is speculated that these decorative carriers might have been attached to a heavier, more serviceable base cloth. Also, I have seen a case of another carrier where a baby head covering cloth was buttoned along the top border.

I am intrigued by Ann's theory of conflation between the Yi and the Yao. Anyone have more theories on this?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:21 pm 
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Location: Canterbury, UK
Ann has come back to me with some photos of a Yi carrier in her collection and these comments:

Quote:
I agree with you tht Nina's baby carrier is very similar to WWT p.320. Just for comparison I would like to focus on the Yi BC in WWT on p. 378 from Wenshang County, Yunnan. I have a similar carrier and I am sending you JPEGs for comparison with the central motif of the Yao BC on p 320 and Nina's central square. The spirit of the embroidery is entirely different in the Yi carrier, much less Han-style. This compaprison reinforces for me the difference between the Yao and Yi carriers."


It is a pity that this thread is now spread over 2 pages. I suggest that you open this forum thread in your browser twice and then look at the central panels of the two carriers - Ann's Yi and Nina's Yao - side by side. I look forward to trying this out when I have finished this post!!!

I am in email correspondence with the publishers of WWT, University of Hawai'i, who are considering whether we can post photos on the forum or not. Fingers crossed...


Attachments:
YiBCw.jpg
YiBCw.jpg [ 77.11 KiB | Viewed 6043 times ]
YiBCDetw.jpg
YiBCDetw.jpg [ 72.65 KiB | Viewed 6043 times ]
YiBCdet2w.jpg
YiBCdet2w.jpg [ 74.38 KiB | Viewed 6043 times ]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:01 am 
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this is Pamela as Martin Conlan's secretary this time!!!

I drew Martin's attention to the Nina's carrier on this thread and he has responded:

Quote:
Nina's style I recognize seeing many in Guangxi, a long time ago and understood them to be Yao.

Ann Goodman's carrier on the blog: when I first saw it I had a sense of the Tujia/Songtao Miao about it, but definitely not Tibetan or any Yi style I have ever seen. I have had very old Tujia carriers many years ago, which I sadly never catalogued, not in this particular style but using the "tabby cloth" and the pale indigo sections.

This is one [labelled by Martin as 'Guangxi Yao Old Red Silk Carrier'] I bought at the time that I think you may have seen before. The front section is very old, the backing is patched up old cotton drill, maybe from an old pair of trousers, and has obviously been added later. Not sure where in Guangxi either.


Attachments:
File comment: Guangxi Yao Old Red Silk Carrier
IMG_0011w.jpg
IMG_0011w.jpg [ 81.1 KiB | Viewed 6025 times ]
File comment: Guangxi Yao Old Red Silk Carrier detail
GuangxiOldRedCarrier_detW.jpg
GuangxiOldRedCarrier_detW.jpg [ 75.78 KiB | Viewed 6025 times ]

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Last edited by Pamela on Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:05 am 
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Just checking to make sure the above post came out OK I have been struck by how similar the 'butterflies' on Martin's baby carrier are to the slightly more stylised butterflies in the corners of the central square on Ann's baby carrier preceding it which she believes to be Yi.

Am I the only one who is confused...???

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:33 pm 
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Martin Conlan has very kindly come back to me with some Yi baby carriers from Longlin, Guangxi.

First he sent me a scan from p79 of the book 'The Costumes and Adornments of Chinese Yi nationality Picture Album' showing a Yi baby carrier from Longlin, Guangxi. The he sent me photos of two Yi carriers in his collection from this area. He said:
Quote:
"These are large carriers, very different from the Guangxi Yao one you posted up yesterday. I have a couple of old Longlin ones pictured below."


Attachments:
File comment: Longlin baby carrier, page 79 'The Costumes and Adornments of Chinese Yi nationality Picture Album'
LonglinYiBCp79.jpg
LonglinYiBCp79.jpg [ 63.78 KiB | Viewed 5960 times ]
File comment: Longlin Yi Baby carrier 1
LonglinYiBC1.jpg
LonglinYiBC1.jpg [ 65.49 KiB | Viewed 5960 times ]
File comment: Longlin Yi Baby carrier 1, central panel
LonglinYiBC1-cntrl-pnl.jpg
LonglinYiBC1-cntrl-pnl.jpg [ 74.56 KiB | Viewed 5960 times ]
File comment: Longlin Yi Baby carrier 1, detail 1
LonglinYiBC1Det1.jpg
LonglinYiBC1Det1.jpg [ 80.41 KiB | Viewed 5960 times ]
File comment: Longlin Yi Baby carrier 2
LonglinYiBC2.jpg
LonglinYiBC2.jpg [ 69.76 KiB | Viewed 5960 times ]
File comment: Longlin Yi Baby carrier 2, central panel
LonglinYiBC2cntrl-pnl.jpg
LonglinYiBC2cntrl-pnl.jpg [ 79.64 KiB | Viewed 5960 times ]

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 Post subject: No probably Zhuang
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:28 pm 
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I have today received in from Ann Goodman an email with an identification of the original babycarrier which started this thread. I will post again an image of it to help current viewers of the this post. If you go right to the start of this thread (page 1) you will also find several images of details of the embroidery.

Quote:
The mystery baby carrier, attached, in Ann Goodman's collection has been identified by Herman Mast and his friend Mr. Yu who have provided baby carriers to Judith Stubbs, curator of the exhibition of minority baby carriers at University of Indiana, Bloomington, December 2012 as "from Yunnan; Zhuang minority nationality; [It] displays dragon, phoenix, lion, unicorn butterfly motifs--as well as a number of obscure Buddhist symbols which are virtually impossible to account for out of their tribal context."


Attachments:
YiRedwoolBCw-.jpg
YiRedwoolBCw-.jpg [ 71.2 KiB | Viewed 3650 times ]

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