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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:31 pm 
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It has been pointed out to me that we have already had a discussion http://www.tribaltextiles.info/communit ... php?t=1056 about some Yi tunics which are similar to the one which Ann Goodman shows in her photo which I posted above (with waist tie and short skirt). I just did not recognise the tunics as being similar shown in such different ways.

Iain refers us to the same Yi book that I reference above:
Quote:
"On p. 184 of the book, "The Costumes and Adornments of Chinese Yi Nationality Picture Album" ISBN 7805260338 there are images of a modern 'pull-over garment' attributed to the Yi in Xundian Bangiao, Yunnan'"
and Susan posts scans of the images.

I am a little confused as to whether it is a tunic for a man or a woman as the previous thread would suggest a woman (or either if possiby for a shaman although Iain's contact with one shown did not support the shamanistic affiliation) and Ann believes hers to be for a man. On the other thread are photos of some old tunics and also a link to one on Susan Stem's website.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:04 am 
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Ann Goodman has sent me another photo of her Yi outfit showing hat, tunic, belt and skirt which I post here. I also post a photo of a detail of a Hani jacket of Ann's. In her covering email to me Ann said:
Quote:
Dear Pamela,
The detail of the metal beads on the Sani hat are a pointer. Attached is a spreadout view of the Yi hemp outfit which I believe is for a man, although the skirt belies this. The embroidery is of wool on a hemp backcloth. Also attached is a detail of a little Hani jacket which in coloring and embroidery detail recalls the Sani work on your girl's hat. It is my understanding that the Hani (Akkha) and Yi languages are both from the Tibeto-Burman group. The similarity of color and design motifs would further suggest a common root.

All for now except for thanks to you for facilitating this exchange.
Ann


Attachments:
File comment: Yi hemp outfit
YiHempOutfitw.jpg
YiHempOutfitw.jpg [ 64.31 KiB | Viewed 5175 times ]
File comment: Detail of Hani jacket showing metal decoration
HaniDetailw.jpg
HaniDetailw.jpg [ 68.35 KiB | Viewed 5175 times ]

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 Post subject: Yi tunic images
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:18 pm 
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Hehehe
Pamela we are posting on the same topic! And you beat me to it!! Here are a couple of images and a construction diagram of one of the Yi tunics in my collection most similar to Ann's above.


Attachments:
File comment: Yi tunic
Front view

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000-1[1].jpg [ 31.16 KiB | Viewed 5161 times ]
File comment: Yi tunic
Back view

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File comment: Yi tunic
Back view detail

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File comment: Yi tunic
Back view detail

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File comment: Yi tunic
Back view detail

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004[2].jpg [ 127.31 KiB | Viewed 5161 times ]
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 Post subject: Yi tunic construction
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:30 pm 
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Posts: 315
The construction of the tunic I posted above is actually not quite as simple as it seems especially with the wool embroidery overlays. There is also a hidden pocket on the underside of the tunic which contains a number of variously shaped objects. I have not opened the pocket - it being well and truly stitched up - but can say that at least some of small objects inside are metallic, and possibly iron-based, as they are attracted to a magnet. Several objects may well be seeds whist there also seems to be one small knarled stick/root.


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Cp.Yi.07.1.doc [30 KiB]
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:38 pm 
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Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Iain's hidden treasures are an interesting find! I have found such items stitched into corners of baby carriers from China occasionally. I considered them to be amulets or talismans, probably for protection of the child from malevolent forces. This is a prevalent idea in human society and manifests itself in everything from tattoos to 'magic' cloths to amulets and talismans.

As for the tunic, I thought it closely resembled the modern ones worn by women and shown in the Yi Nationalities book; there should be images of this on the aforementioned thread. I do love Ann's hat/tunic/skirt combo, but have never seen this documented anywhere, tho that certainly does not mean it cannot be- we'll just have to keep looking. I did just check some photos from a trip we made to Yunnan where we visited several museums with local costumes and there was nothing like this tunic. The Yi are in other provinces, so perhaps this is from one other than Yunnan.

Re the Sani/Hani connection: I think it somewhat tenuous. Many other non-Tibeto/Burman groups use metal for decoration, including the nomadic 'gypsies' of India. I show here some little cast metal bits used to edge the bottom of the distinctive jackets of the Red Yao in Guilin, along with a detail of the cast metal bits on a Sani hat that I had.


Attachments:
File comment: Sani hat
Mail-AH116_Front_Detail.jpg
Mail-AH116_Front_Detail.jpg [ 50.07 KiB | Viewed 5144 times ]
File comment: Red Yao Jacket- from Guilin
Mail-TACH154_Back.jpg
Mail-TACH154_Back.jpg [ 16.01 KiB | Viewed 5144 times ]
File comment: Red Yao Jacket- detail of back
Mail-TACH154_Back Detail 7.jpg
Mail-TACH154_Back Detail 7.jpg [ 58.05 KiB | Viewed 5144 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:46 am 
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Wow. So many interesting pieces and so much information to process!

1. Back to the original pieces that started this whole wonderful discussion - Shelly, could you give us the dimensions of your pieces? I was at the market over the weekend, and saw some pieces very similar to the ones you posted. However, they were much larger than a head cloth, and were made as decorative wall hangings.

2. Pamela - Thank you for posting such beautiful pieces! I just wanted to let you know that in the same book I found the information on Shelly's pieces, there are a few pictures and a very short discussion of a piece almost identical to your baby carrier top. It talks about the rarity and fine workmanship of these pieces, making special note of the unique red and white braiding and the cloud pattern.

3. Regarding the Sani/Hani connection - It is my understanding that the Yi, Hani, and Lahu minorities all trace their origins back to the nomadic Qiang people of Sichuan/Qinghai. Today the Qiang are also a recognized minority group, though much smaller than any of the groups they gave rise to.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:58 pm 
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In Ann Goodman's response to receiving her digest of the past week's forum posts she responds re this thread as follows:
Quote:
"Thanks to Susan for posting the details of her Sani metal headdress decorations. They are certainly similar to those on the man's (woman's?) headdress that I posted. JT_BJ's information on the Yi/Hani?Qian connection is welcome. I intend to find out more about the nomadic Qiang. Can you supply me with any good references, [JT_BJ - are you able to help Ann here?] I am now reading the Metropolitan Museum of Art catalog "When Silk Was Gold". In that catalog all begins with the Han excursion to the west by Zang Qian. There must have been something before."

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:18 pm 
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These are surely Sani embroideries from Lunan and Mile areas surrounding Shi Lin (Stone Forest).

They are oversized versions (80 cm square)of the counted cross-stitch panels given at weddings (worn stacked atop the head during the wedding) added to the bride's dowry and used for panels in baby carriers.

The large ones were made specificly for the tourist market. I bought three of these as well as many authentic smaller pieces over the years. The large ones with small stitches appeared only for a short time. I bought my three in front of the Cha Hua Binguan in January 1993 on my first visit to Yunnan and never saw any sewn with small stitches again, although larger stitch versions on black persisted for several years. I had seen them during the preceding weeks, but the days before I left the ladies were nowhere to be seen.

I went to the airport and my Hong Kong flight was delayed for hours, so I went back to the Cha Hua for one last look. I pulled up and there they were happy to see me. Just as I started to pay a plain clothes cop walked up, showed his concealed pistol and chased the "illegal" sellers scurrying down the nearby alley. I followed them and finally sealed the deal! One is exactly the same as your photo 2874.

I hope this is of assistance!

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