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 Post subject: NEW Link
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 1:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 7:27 pm
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Location: USA
Sorry for the problems,

The new link is :

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rgmook ... pg&.src=ph

Best, Richard


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 Post subject: links replaced
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:16 am 
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Location: Canterbury, UK
Richard,

Many thanks for going back into your posts and editing the photo links on Yahoo so that they now work on this post and on the Southwest Moluccas, Tanimbar Ikat Sarong “Bakan Inelak” post. I so hate to lose sight of photos of good textiles!

All the best,

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Pamela

http://www.tribaltextiles.info
on-line tribal textiles resource


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 1:59 am 
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Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
I couldn't resist contributing a little to this discussion as I have some pieces in my collection similar to those posted- both the abaca cloth and the T'boli blouse (tho not the second blouse). A Filipino friend acquired them for me a number of years ago in Mindanao, but I wouldn't even ask him to go back now as safety issues are so serious there. I'm sure that is why we do not see more textiles from there; if it's not safe for the local people, it certainly isn't safe for foreigners who will really 'stand out in a crowd' and risk kidnapping, etc. It is very unfortunate, as there are some very interesting tribal groups still producing textiles in traditional ways- my abaca cloths are of recent production, but with natural dyes and traditional patterns. I will try to photograph them and include them soon. The book From A Rainbow's Varied Hue includes some magnificent abaca cloth tubeskirts which are appealing purely on a visual level, let alone technical or cultural, so I don't understand why there seems to be so little interest by collectors and institutions as is suggested in this discussion. Ah, but collecting seems to be influenced by many factors, not least of which is availability of items and of documentation. So the lack of both these things may be part of the reason for the lack of attention given to these beautiful pieces and the cultures that produced them. To be continued...


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 Post subject: T'boli blouses
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 5:52 pm 
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Since I posted the photos of my two Filippino jackets/blouses (see page 1 of this thread http://www.tribaltextiles.info/communit ... 65&start=0) I have become the owner of the beautiful book 'Dreamweavers' on the T'boli and their incredible abaca ikat weaving. The weavers shown in the book are all wearing blouses similar to mine. Having seen the very, very fine ikat my blouses are enhanced in my eyes if they have been worn by such textile artists. (No, don't say that it is unlikely - I can dream, can't I?)

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Pamela

http://www.tribaltextiles.info
on-line tribal textiles resource


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:53 pm 
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Location: east coast
I do not have much to add to this thread although I am enjoying and more importantly learning from it.

Re the exhibitions- The ATHM (American Textile History Museum) in Lowell, Massachusetts, USA (A few miles north of me) is to have an exhibition featuring batiks in 2005. I'll try to find more information on the dates. Some of the beautiful batiks from Rudolf Smend's collection will be exhibited.

The URL is: http://www.athm.org

Rudolf has recently republished the book of his batiks in all English.

This was the title of the German and English version. I think the new version retains that title.

BATIK Javanese and Sumatran Batiks for Courts and Palaces. Rudolf G. Smend Collection.


Pamela wrote:
Richard



Can I please encourage people to share information on collections (via the Museums, Exhibtions, Events, Galleries and Websites forum please). We can then all try and keep up the pressure on our travels!

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John


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 Post subject: backa to abaca
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:44 am 
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Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Finally- I thought I'd added these photos already... These are examples of modern abaca fiber ikat weavings from Mindanao from my collection, purchased in Mindanao in 2000. They are called t'nalak and are produced by the T'boli people near Lake Sebu. Sylvia Fraser-Lu has some information in Handwoven Textiles of South-East Asia, p.164. One comment she makes which I find especially interesting is:
Quote:
T'boli women revere Baitpandi, the Spirit of Weavers. While the weaver works, bells are hung on the edges of the unfinished cloth to frighten away evil spirits. Children are not allowed near the loom while weaving is in progress lest they fall sick.
She also states that tho the weaving is done by women, men help by cutting down the abaca plant (like banana plant) and stripping the fibers into strands, which are then combed, and bleached in the sun. The patterns are tied from memory with waxed string. The dyes are natural, and traditionally in three colors- black, dark reddish brown, and white. Weaving is done on a body-tension loom. After weaving, the cloth must be softened, which is achieved by pounding with a mallet. It is then rubbed in ashes and then burnished with a bivalve shell. A 5.4 meter length can take two and a half months to weave.


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Susan Stem

http://www.tribaltrappings.com
http://tribaltrappings.blogspot.com/
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:45 pm 
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Susan

Thanks for the t'nalak photos from the T'boli - funny, I had a feeling you might have posted before (but a search does not reveal them and I promise that I did not edit them away!)

You most definitely should see a copy of "Dreamweavers" as it is a fascinating book about the T'boli and the weaving with the most beautiful photos. See http://www.tribaltextiles.info/communit ... .php?t=131 The book was very much a project to record a disappearing people and craft. The lake where they lived is receding fast.

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Pamela

http://www.tribaltextiles.info
on-line tribal textiles resource


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:36 pm 
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Location: east coast
I can express the same as Richard when it comes to American Indian art. When I started collecting in 1972 or so and pieces were "expensive" at my budget then as a beginning academic engineering professor with 2 kids and wife, people told me to buy anyway because they were not going to decrease in price.

They were right! Plus the really good stuff is increasingly hard to find and when you do, it's $$$$$$.

I still have to stretch a lot to get good textiles, or American indian pots and baskets and the really best always are still out of my reach. But I prefer the beauty and interest of my pieces more than a new car. (My 1990 Subaru is still humming along).

Still I know one person who took out a second mortgage for an outstanding American Indian basket.

And I probably should not say this but what I can find in Borneo is quite less expensive that what it would be through yet one more dealer in the US and also I can find things like large baskets which cost too much to ship on spec for dealers to handle. So there are still bargins out there but they too are also vanishing fast.

I guess you can't want both for people to recognize textiles, baskets, pots as fine desireable art and also expect the prices to remain like the "good old days".

A little example. A couple years ago, an incredible and old pot made by an Acoma Indian came onto eBay. Almost every pot collector loves Acoma pottery for various reasons. This particular one had all the desireable features plus it was the largest one I or anyone I know ever saw. They are all handbuilt with the clay coil method and without wheel and are famed for their very thin walls. "Rings like a bell" when tapped.

The person putting it up on Ebay said he was furniture dealer and happened to get it in an estate closing and did not know much about such things. He was right!. He started it with no reserve for a couple dollars.

It finished at around $85,000! I heard a combine went in on it. Needless to say I dropped out of the bidding WAY before that.

At the time this was made around early 1900 or so, it was probably a few dollars to buy.

We probably all wish we had been "there" at the time.


richard mook wrote:
Sandie,

For the most part, I agree, though I attempt to refrain from unnecessarily equating the quality of a collection with the budget of a collector. I will concede that we all need to operate within our means. However, this once primarily constrained the quantity collected more than the quality collected. Is this not true? My point is that a major shift has occurred and continues today, where no matter what kind of resources you commit, it becomes more of a challenge to find worthy examples for any collection. I remember when $100.00 or so would yield a notable example of a Tampan worthy of inclusion in any collection of Indonesian textiles. Look what the same $100.00 buys today. Exceptions remain numerous, though not as frequent as in the past. This maybe one of the biggest pitfalls of the popular press publicizing the decorative merit of these textiles over their cultural value making it more and more difficult to pursue our collecting passions. This is why I continue to critically evaluate how and what I collect. Best, Richard

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:11 am 
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Posts: 42
Location: Austria / Europe
hello all,

this particular thread was my first time when i saw this newsgroup.

As I do have some connections down to the Philippines it attracted me right away.
So even if this thread is more or less closed I´d like to share a few pictures from my inventory.

Rather old and complete pieces - something around 1900 - the abaca is already very shiny (therefore hard to take pictures) and quiet soft.
They are complete skirts which have been just opened at one end to proper display them (I´m not so much an collector/museum to keep them closed but rather see them as a total; they could be closed again anywhay).

Just experiencing some difficulties with uploading more then these 4 pics - so will do another reply and post there.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:14 am 
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so here we go with the last pictures

of abaca #3 i got 3 details as it is the most impressive/interesting one in my eyes.

I don´t have the sizes with me - would have to dig them out of the warehouse, but you should know what size they are aproximately.

also even if posted in the proper order the pictures are somehow mixed - so i hope you`ll find your way.

hope you like them

cheers
udo


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 7:35 pm
Posts: 175
Location: east coast
Interesting pieces. Thanks for posting them. The Kutei peoples of Kalimantan do (did) similar work so there must be a definite connection to the Phillipines.

I don't have any Kutei pieces but they are usually pictured in books featuring SEA textiles. The old ones - pre aniline dyes - and in good condition are very difficult to find. If you know of any, I'd appreciate hearing about them.

Thanks again and keep posting!

-John



udo_gangl wrote:
hello all,

this particular thread was my first time when i saw this newsgroup.

As I do have some connections down to the Philippines it attracted me right away.
So even if this thread is more or less closed I´d like to share a few pictures from my inventory.

Rather old and complete pieces - something around 1900 - the abaca is already very shiny (therefore hard to take pictures) and quiet soft.
They are complete skirts which have been just opened at one end to proper display them (I´m not so much an collector/museum to keep them closed but rather see them as a total; they could be closed again anywhay).

Just experiencing some difficulties with uploading more then these 4 pics - so will do another reply and post there.

_________________
John


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:37 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Austria / Europe
hello john,

never heard or seen any pieces from the kutei people.

The connection from the Philippines (especially over the Sulu sea - Tawitawi island being the nearest; but also Pallawan is pretty close too) to Borneo is a very "geographical" one.
As the islands of the Sulu sea are a somehow landbridge over there - the last island nearly reaches Borneo, and there are also some "official" boat connections in between.
Therefore it always has been relation and trade between these states.

If you do have any pictures of these particular textiles (or links) I would be happy to see them.

thanks
udo


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 7:35 pm
Posts: 175
Location: east coast
Hi Udo,

there are some pieces you might want to look at on the website for the Tropenmuesum

http://www.kit.nl/frameset.asp?/tropenm ... sp&frnr=1&


You can search under COLLECTIONS and then under KALIMANTAN and then under KALKIMANTAN TIMUR.

At least that is how I did it.

I don't recall that the museums specifically says Kutei for these. Perhaps Benaq. Also, I am not sure that all of their Borneo textile attributions are correct.

I'll try to remember to look through my textile books for some references for you also.

-John

udo_gangl wrote:
hello john,

never heard or seen any pieces from the kutei people.

The connection from the Philippines (especially over the Sulu sea - Tawitawi island being the nearest; but also Pallawan is pretty close too) to Borneo is a very "geographical" one.
As the islands of the Sulu sea are a somehow landbridge over there - the last island nearly reaches Borneo, and there are also some "official" boat connections in between.
Therefore it always has been relation and trade between these states.

If you do have any pictures of these particular textiles (or links) I would be happy to see them.

thanks
udo

_________________
John


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:09 am
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Location: Australia
This is a very late response to Pamela's posting from 29th of July 2003.
She was displaying two tribe shirts from Mindanao but didn't really know from where they came.
I visited some of these precious people just 3 months ago and these shirts look very similar.
The women seems to have rather wide and open sleeves that goes down to their elbows. I guess it could have something to do with the warm climate or something.
However the men's shirts have the long sleeves as seen on your photos.

In any case, when you know in what circumstances any native tribe lives and creates any clothing, baskets, mats etc. you get a greater appreciation of their achievements.
The Manobo tribes lives up in one of the hilliest areas of the province of Bukidnon in Mindanao.
They are mainly small people, only to the height of 150 cm or roughly thereabouts. They are extremely fit and runs up the mountain sides as quickly as the rest of us would walk on flat ground. What takes them 1 hour to walk will take a fit westerner 3 hour to walk!
These are precious people of Mindano and I am very grateful that I have met them and will be meeting them in the near future.

I truly hope that from now on these shirts means so much more to you than they did.


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 Post subject: abaca ikats
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:18 am
Posts: 53
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
This is what I love about this forum, 4 year old posts being revived! :)
I'm writing a minibook for the museum on "Ikats of the Islamic World" & have been trying to include as many Islamic communities as possible. Earlier this year, I met a scholar & textile expert from the Phillipines and he mentioned in passing a Muslim ikat-weaving community in Southern Phillipines.

I've been trying to look for books & such on the subject to no avail. However, I have gathered enough material to mention abaca ikats in my essay. I thank you all for sharing images from your personal collections, I have found it very, very interesting :)


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