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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:04 pm 
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Steven

Many thanks for the details of the babycarrier. I am sending all the photos to Gina. I spoke to her yesterday on the telephone and she said that she would be happy to have a look at them.

I have been having a hunt in my references since getting back home but no luck so far!

Following on from your reference to Lao-Han here are a couple of links to some photos of Lao-Han woman in two different Miao villages in Guizhou. Unfortunately not a baby carrier in sight!

http://www.tribaltextiles.info/Gallerie ... /DLE12.htm
http://www.tribaltextiles.info/Gallerie ... uang34.htm

best wishes,

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:14 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2003 4:52 am
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Location: California, USA
Thanks for posting larger photos of the center square. I now think the square is also an example of Miao embroidery. There are some motifs which are charactericly Miao: flowers, birds, among others, and their placement on the textile. The motifs are similar to that found on a baby's collar in my collection.

But of course, this still begs several questions: why this decoration, and why on this particular baby carrier?

I also need to amplify my comments on attribution, which seem to be misunderstood. My stance is simply: Mainland SEAsian textiles are characterised by a vast and vastly similar range of motif and design which also share a common structure throughout the weaving worlds of SEAsia.

Therefore, I feel that by checking the basics of a textile, many problems of attribution can be solved. Is it commercial or homespun? Natural or artifical dyes? An area of cross-cultural integration or relatively homogeneous? Innovative, or conservative? Idiosyncratic?

I hope these comments expand on my earlier remarks. After all, who doesn't love a mystery?

Sandie


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:28 am 
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Dear group,

I have solved my own riddle.
On page 152-153 of Bei Shan "Baby Carriers" (Guizhou People's Pub. House, 2002 & 2003) there is a very old carrier from Guizhou, Libo County. It is attributed to the Dong. Regarding composition the embroidered panel is nearly identical, without question my carrier is from the same place. The surrounding fragment in the book has an almost identical triangular motif (but more archaic) as well. I do not have a scanner here, maybe I can try and take a picture. If another member owns this volume maybe they can scan the page and post it?
Libo County is in Qiannan prefecture bordering Guangxi and is 87% minority peoples including Dong, Miao, Yao and Buyi.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:21 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
While the embroidered section of the babycarrier is not reminicent of the Yao (mien), I have seen the same checkerbaord on a few Yao pieces in Laos. Ultimately, I not sure that means much given borrowing from other groups. I don't think it is a Yao piece either.

Bill


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 Post subject: baby carrier (cont.)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:53 pm 
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Bill,

While the piece is Dong, it is certainly possible that the Dong in Libo borrowed the triangular motif from the Yao, just as some of the symbols in the embroidery were borrowed in antiquity from the Han.
There are also a number of Miao textiles from Guangxi with elements similar to Yao designs from the same area.
In Chinese they say Libo is a "minzu zaju" place, or "ethnic mixture" with no one minority dominant, where is a place like Taijiang County in Guizhou is 95% Miao.

Steven


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 1:02 pm 
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I was not entirely clear with my last post. In areas where there is great ethnic diversity it seems you can see more borrowing of design elements across different ethnic groups.


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 Post subject: baby carrier similarity
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:06 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:30 am
Posts: 315
Greetings Steven
I know that you have found the identity of this baby carrier - you had said that you have not seen another like it.
At http://www.boyitang.com/list.asp?type=6 there is a very similarly constructed piece although the central panel appears to be somewhat different. It is attributed to the Zhuang minority group too.
The website above is a rather frustrating one to use with links not working etc. However, if you use the top index links most of the time you will succeed!
Also do you have details of the book you mention? Bei Shan "Baby Carriers" (Guizhou People's Pub. House, 2002 & 2003) and ISBN?
Regards
Iain


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 Post subject: Baby carrier
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:50 am 
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Iain,

Contact me through my personal email for info on Guizhou related books.
You can find my email on my website.


Steven

www.stevenqfrost.net


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:32 am 
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Stephen

For the bookaholics amongst forum members - and I fear several of us are so affected, as Iain the biologist said to me 'the virus is alive in a cooperative host' - could you please give the ISBN number? I had a search on the web and found at the White Lotus site http://www.thailine.com/lotus/lists/textiles.htm the book:
N2912 - Anon - US$125.00
GUI ZHOU SHAO SHU MIN ZU, BEI SHAN (BABY CARRIERS)
(Kunming, 2002 (Chinese text))
303 pp., illus. in col, 220 x 290 mm

Looking through my own library of Chinese language only books I have a two volume set on babycarriers. Perhaps this is the same? The only thing I can read is the ISBN number - so this would be very useful indeed.

Very many thanks

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http://www.tribaltextiles.info
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:08 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:26 pm
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Location: Kaili, Guizhou, China
Hello all.
I am sure that iain's baby carrier is from Zhuang People in Guangxi, China. More information please click:
http://www.tribaltextiles.info/community/viewtopic.php?t=970

Thanks!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:29 am 
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Wu-zhh

I am pleased to see that you, like me, like to tie up information on different threads by linking and cross-referencing. Many thanks and keep up the good work!!

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http://www.tribaltextiles.info
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:09 am 
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There appears to be a little confusion here
Quote:
Wu-zhh wrote:
Hello all.
I am sure that iain's baby carrier is from Zhuang People in Guangxi, China. More information please click:
http://www.tribaltextiles.info/communit ... .php?t=970

I think this attribution was meant for one of Steven Frost's carriers as I do not have a carrier like this.
Regards Iain


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:29 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:42 pm
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Location: Canterbury, UK
Yes, all of this thread relates to Steven's babycarrier and the photo of it is on page 1 of the thread. It is really good to get such a clear ID for this style of babycarrier. Wu-zhh's carriers on the other thread for which he provides a link are so strikingly similar to Steven's; one with an almost identical pieced work and the other with somewhat different and more complex. We struggle to ID Miao textiles yet there is quite a lot of literature out there. When it comes to Zhuang there is very little that I have found available so Wu-zhh's contribution is especially welcome. Keep up the good work (even if the names of the forum collectors get confused ... just testing to see if you are all awake (and I clearly was not!!!))

best wishes,

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http://www.tribaltextiles.info
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