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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 4:55 pm
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Location: Netherlands
Dear forum,
Again a question for you all!
I have bought several baby hats which I myself call Miao, but reading about the Miao and looking at the pictures on internet. They surely aren’t all Miao! Who can help me identify these precious baby hats, to what minority group do they belong?
Thank you Monique


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:00 pm 
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Monique

I think that the hat 1903 might be Han Chinese (the very large majority population of China). It is also part of the mainstream tradition in China to protect the heads of small babies and children. It is difficult to make out the different motifs on the hat but it does have more of a Han feel to me than Miao - but I may be wrong.

I think that the hat 1927 - which you posted in http://www.tribaltextiles.info/communit ... .php?t=168 after your visit to the Indigo gallery - is Miao. I think it may well be from Kaili county or Taijing county in Guizhou. It is the white outlining of the embroidery motifs which makes me think this.

1034 - I am not sure at all. I don't think it is Han. It could be Miao. There are so very many styles of Miao dress. The hanging flap at the back is particularly to protect the most vulnerable area of the head at the base of the neck. I don't know if James can help with identifying - he may have decided that we are never going to get back to China from Borneo so may well have deserted us!

As you like children's hats I am posting a photo for you of three little Miao girls all wearing slightly different style hats in one village in Guizhou. If you want to see more of the children have a look at the photogallery of the village (Gao Zhai village, Bai Jin township, Huishui county, Guizhou province) at http://www.tribaltextiles.info/Galleries/Gao_Zhai.htm

I also find it hard to resist children's hats and bought one in this village - the one on the left - and have a few more in my collection.


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File comment: Iron beating Miao festival costume in miniature worn by little girls dancing in Gao Zhai village, Bai Jin township, Huishui county, Guizhou province.
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Pamela

http://www.tribaltextiles.info
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 Post subject: thank you
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:24 pm 
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Hello Pamela,

Thank you for your quick respons on my question. I thought that the second cap may be Dong, or is that all wrong? I looked at several pictures from websites and I thought it looked a little bit like the Dong embroidery.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:02 pm 
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Monique

Since posting my response last night I have been looking at Susan Stem's www.tribaltrappings.com web site where she and Robert have just installed an excellent new search engine. I was playing around with it testing out the search engine and found some Dong baby hats. One of the ones which has been sold has very similar embroidery to yours and I began to wonder. However, it is confusing as the photo is called a 'Dong Baby hat' and the name of the web page showing the photo says 'Miao Baby hat'. We need Susan to advise us (AH111).

Susan and Robert are creating an excellent photo resource of textiles (and other material culture) on their website as they are retaining their very careful and excellent photos of all the items which pass through their hands. The search feature has made it accessible. Have a care for any words shorter than 4 letters as this is a bit of a problem at present.

If you look at the site, Monique, you will find several finely detailed hats on show as I think that that Susan also finds it hard to resist them! There are some very nice ones and she has a very good eye.

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Pamela

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:38 am 
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Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Pamela- Many thanks for the kind words about our new search feature, tho we're still spraying for bugs. And apologies for the confusion on AH111- I'd changed the name in one place and missed the other. From what I was told recently in Guizhou, it is from the Dong people.

I hesitate to say anything definitive on the other two, but the first one reminds me of some I saw in Hong Kong years ago that were probably Han. The third one has straps/ties similar to another in my own collection, but I don't know the origin. I'll see what I can find out, and will try to include a photo.

Monique- It appears that you have your plexiglass stands- they look very nice. What a good solution!

James' input on these would be welcome- anybody home?

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 Post subject: hello
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:50 am 
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Location: Netherlands
Thank you Susan for your contribution, I am copying your answers and put them all with the pictures of the baby hats. This forum is really great to get answers/ information. After reading Pamela's reply I visited your website and looked for the baby hats. I saw a couple of pannels. The website look really great and gives a lot of information.
Is anybody helping you with building your website?

The plexi glass try out still didn't arrive. On the top I want to attach some fiber fill ( we call this fiber fill, you use for patch work) and with this material I want to make a kind of holding exactly made for my cap. The fiber fill prevents the caps to fall of the stand. But I will make pictures of all stages and these I will post together with my experiences.
Bye bye for now!

Hope that James is looking at the website some day, because I understand that he should have some information.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 10:01 am 
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Monique

I was looking through "A Picture Album of China's Miao Costumes and Ornaments" when I found on page 52 a detail of an 'embroidered sash with dragon pattern'. The embroidery style is VERY similar to your hat 1927 and it also has the gold edging shown on the hat. There are a few pages of what they call "The Langdong style" although none of the other pieces shown have the same style to the sash and your hat. For location they say "Langdong Town of Rongjinag County in Guizhou Province, it is popular in the Langgang and Langdong of the county"

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:08 pm 
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Uh oh. Sorry to disappoint, but I have a really hard time with hats. I think one of the things that Pamela illustrates brilliantly in the photograph of the girls wearing hats is that they don't necessarily conform to the same rules that women's dress does. There seems to be a lot more latitude with hat design than there does with jackets or baby carriers. That being said I have a couple of ideas...

I'm thinking the top hat is from down in Yunnan Province. More specifically it got me thinking of Yi hats that I purchased in the region. The floral motif and the mythical creature on the front are reminiscent of other hats from the region. I'm still looking for a photograph of something similar to make a more definite attribution, but pretty sure on the group and province.

The second hat definitely comes from that south-eastern region of Guizhou province down near the border with Guangxi. The difficulty lies knowing which group it belongs to. In the region Dong and Miao people live very closely together and the styles blend and intermingle to a degree that I cannot tell them apart. The reason I would classify it in that region is due to the stitch type and the motifs.

The Taijiang pieces that Pamela is probably thinking of are usually greens on a red background and today are made by braiding a cord and tacking it down in concentric designs. You sometimes see women in the marketplace making the cord with a device that looks like a short stool with a hole in it and sometimes a dozen or more bobbins hanging around the edges. The texture of the embroidery on this piece probably features a higher relief doesn't fill in areas entirely like on Taijiang sleeves. My understanding is that the raised embroidery for these pieces is created in place, not braided elsewhere, and is wrapped around a central core of horsehair and then stitched down through the piece. The embroidery here is beyond my modest abilities, and thus difficult for me to understand. The hat shown has some typical motifs from the region with stylized brids and flowers across the front if I'm looking right and my guess is a dragon that looks more like a centipede on the top. A piece with the same style of embroidery can be found on Marla Mallett's site at the following address:

http://www.marlamallett.com/e-3846.htm

(Note: Is it OK to post a link to someone else's retail site?)

The third hat reminds me of some Dong embroidery because of the stiches, colors and use of sequins. The style is similar to some of the baby carrier panels from down in Guangxi. Near the place where the pieces in the following thread came from:

http://www.tribaltextiles.info/communit ... .php?t=146

Again I'm still looking for photographic documentation. the problem with hats, especially those for children is that they're rarely the center of the photograph, but instead they're on someone in the background which makes them difficult to nail down.

Sorry to be less than definitive, but you've found one of my weak points.

James


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:37 pm 
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Yes, the 'horsetail embroidery' on the Dong hat on Marsha Mallet's site is very similar.

I think it is OK to post the link to a commercial site since the material there is a very useful resource and, as we all know, there is a limited amount of material available to see in books. I am sure that Marsha won't mind both as it makes commercial sense for her and also hers is a site that I link to under my links section.

Thanks for your contribution to the discussion, James. I agree that hats are very difficult indeed to pin down.

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Pamela

http://www.tribaltextiles.info
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 Post subject: Hats off!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:13 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 6:34 pm
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Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Y'all might be interested in Forum member Nurit Simpson's website which features her hat collection and just happens to include a hat like the last one of Monique's: http://www.xs4all.nl/~simpsont/NuritsCollection/

I'm still working on photos, folks. Sorry!

Good to hear from James.

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Susan Stem

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