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 Post subject: Batak Textile
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:11 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:37 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Austria / Europe
Hello all,
after a "bit of absence" i´d like to post a Batak textile which i have bought recently.
After having it now for some 2 months here in Europe the typical "Indonesian smell" dissapeared, even if i haven´t cleaned it yet.
Its basically in a extremely good condition, given its age, just some minor wholes and some stains - but as the Batak not really drycleaned them in a regular base this should be ok :wink:

Size is about 220 / 90 cm (+ fringes)

Taking pics of this pretty dark piece is a bit difficult - especially the color balancing was a bit different; it tends to have an overall little blueish touch (pic #1 is a bit too green!) - but basically you should know about the colors of this type.

Very fine design, ikat and weaving - i would basically like to know the exact name of this type and by whom and why it was used.
I only know Batak...

many thanks upfront - if someone needs a better (bigger sized file of the pic) simply let me know via PM and i send an email.

regards from icy Austria
udo


Attachments:
batak5a.jpg
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batak4a.jpg
batak4a.jpg [ 88.02 KiB | Viewed 7001 times ]
batak3a.jpg
batak3a.jpg [ 58.62 KiB | Viewed 7001 times ]
batak2a.jpg
batak2a.jpg [ 61.37 KiB | Viewed 7001 times ]
batak1a.jpg
batak1a.jpg [ 70.55 KiB | Viewed 7001 times ]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:44 pm 
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Hi Udo - welcome back!

What a super textile! Of course the best person to ID it for you is Sandra Niessen but I know she is currently in Indonesia and up to her ears in projects! Not sure when she will get a chance to check up on the forum.

I would say, first of all, that you clearly need Sandra's wonderful book, 'Legacy in cloth: Batak Textiles of Indonesia'! http://www.bataktextiles.com/projects/Legacy.html I have reached for my (heavy!) copy and gone to the Catalogue section 4. 'Stipple ikat'. On page 268, Catalogue 4.2a is a ragi huting Whole cloth 196x67 + fringe 44 cm which is in Sandra's Collection and was collected in 1984 by G.Wolff. Yours seems very similar although your cloth seems to have the wider and more traditionally recognised twining end border of the ragi hotang. Hotang probably refers rattan i.e. to the stipple ikat likening it to the flecks in the bark of rattan. Huting perhaps likens the stipple design to being 'spotted like the skin of the cat' as described by Jasper and Pringadie in their 1912 volume 'De weefkunstm Part 2 of De inlandsche kunstnijverheid in Nederlandsch Indie' as referred to by Sandra. She mentions that the ragi huting is found in both the Toba Batak of the Silindung valley and also Toba Batak of Holbung.

To me this looks to be a beautiful old cloth. I think - but frustratingly cannot see both at once on my computer screen - that the two end designs are slightly different - as in Sandra's ragi huting Cat 4.2a. This possibly means that one end represent male and the other female in a similar way to the Toba ragidup (Silindung) or pinunsaan (Uluuan).

Sandra talks of the ragi hotang being the number two ritual cloth (after the ragidup and pinunsaan). I think that the ragi huting or ragi hotang were/are worn in similar ways. Particularly as a shouldercloth popular for men but might also be worn by women at ritual events. It could be a shouldercloth worn by a man at a wedding ritual to indicate that he is a member of the wife-giving party; be worn by married people indicating their status as home owners; be a gift from wife givers to the group or the father of the groom....

Several of the ragi hotang illustrated in the stipple ikat section have similar measurements to yours give or take a few cm in either length or width.

I hope that I have read and interpreted 'Legacy..' correctly! Any errors will be mine not Sandra's!!!

PS - well done on pics as, I agree, a complete horror to photograph being dark and the stipple ikat tends to just blurr in the camera lens.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:37 pm
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Location: Austria / Europe
Hi Pam,

thanks for your answer and yes i should get a copy from Sandras book but was a bit lazy in the past with buying books...
Thanks for the link - will order from her.

But good to hear that she´s currently in Indonesia so i will wait with ordering and won´t expect a fast answer from her - which i was hoping (the answer not the fastness :wink: )

The piece definately got lots of age - i´d believe towards 19th cent. - given the patina and structure and feeling of the textile. All of which is extremely "easy" to capture with the lens...

"...cannot see both at once on my computer screen - that the two end designs are slightly different ..."
Good point ! Gonna check that tomorrow wheter if they are different or not - to me it looked the same but if the difference is only minor i easily may have overseen that.
Will post two more pics tomorrow...

And if you said anything incorrect wi´ll blame it on Sandra... :D

best
udo

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:25 am 
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Hello,


@ Pam: :D :P :D :P :mrgreen:


Oh yeah ! The ending is indeed different - not really much but yes !

Enclosed some pics of both top and down and each a detail of it.

Many thanks for the info untill now !
best
udo


Attachments:
top_border1_323w.jpg
top_border1_323w.jpg [ 96.86 KiB | Viewed 6958 times ]
bottom_border1_156.jpg
bottom_border1_156.jpg [ 74.69 KiB | Viewed 6958 times ]
detail_down1.jpg
detail_down1.jpg [ 68.56 KiB | Viewed 6958 times ]
detail_top1.jpg
detail_top1.jpg [ 68.86 KiB | Viewed 6958 times ]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:05 am 
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Excellent!!!

Based on what I have been told some time ago I think that the bottom border (down1) in your photo is the female border (pinarhalak) and the top is the male. I think that the top of the female motif is the easiest to ID - the quartered dark/light triangles. I think that other motifs in each border may also be male and female. In Sandra's early book based on her PhD 'Motifs of Life in Toba Batak Texts and Textiles' she has quite a lot of detail on the motifs. Page 188 is very good on close up images of male and female pinarhalak (in an Ulos Jogia). Other male/female smaller motifs are shown on later pages e.g. p195. We tend to think of these motifs only in the ragidup/pinunsaan but, they appear in other textiles especially in earlier ones before the motifs used became more regularly repeated and less individual. Sandra has said that detailed supplementary weft borders were often added to textiles to increase their value (in a significance sense not monetary sense although the latter would follow).

I gather that it was/is quite an art 'reading' the motifs and they might be read by a datu (and, I guess, an experienced weaver).

Thank you so much for letting me enjoy this lovely textile!

I hope to email Sandra today and will include a request to look at this thread when she has a moment.

[PS I edited one of your images to reduce the width and not distort the thread viewing and then re ordered!]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:56 am 
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I was briefly in touch with Sandra Niessen overnight. She has limited access to the internet to respond to the thread but confirms that she has seen Udo's textile and recognised that she had one herself. I also asked her if I could post the image of that textile here - which she has asked me to do.


Attachments:
File comment: From page 268 of 'Legacy in cloth', Catalogue 4.2a a ragi huting Whole cloth 196x67 + fringe 44 cm which is in Sandra Niessen's collection and was collected in 1984 by G.Wolff.
ragi-huting-w.jpg
ragi-huting-w.jpg [ 98.94 KiB | Viewed 6912 times ]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:43 am 
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Hi Pamela,

Perhaps it is unfair to ask, but is there an explanation for why the different patterns are identified as male and female? I see the similarity here:
http://www.tribaltextiles.info/articles ... /VT07m.htm

This link also uses the terms:
http://pureindonesia.blogspot.com/2009/08/ulos.html

I am not questioning Sandra's use of the terms, which I assume are taken from the language of the weavers, just wondering if they have the usual gender meaning, or instead, are used more generally to differentiate between the patterns.

Many thanks for any help
Regards, Larry


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:57 pm 
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Larry,

A good question! I am researching the answer. Sandra has quite a lot in 'Motifs of Life' and I am looking at 'Legacy in cloth' in the very intense 'Design Foundations' section. Not easy to get an 'essence' to respond to you here on the forum. I will be back.....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:58 pm 
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Ann Goodman has been reading this thread and asked me to post the following comment on her behalf:
Quote:
The detailed JPEG of Udo's terrific Batak piece (detail_down1.jpg) on The Forum today brought to my mind a totally different group and region; that of the Hua Yao from Hunnan Province in China. I have a large (68' H x 30" W, framed), old (1930s), and incredibly detailed apron from the Hua and the embroidery (I think it's embroidery and not weaving, but I could be wrong) on the side panels appears to me to show some similarities with the Batak piece. Hunan Province is landlocked in the middle of southern China, far from north Sumatra. Therefore, the style similarity is provocative. Or are there similarities? Is this just a 'clang' association of mine? I would be interested if other Forum members would like to speculate on these similarities.
Congratulations to Udo for obtaining a very beautiful textile.
Ann


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Hua-Yao-apronw.jpg
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Hua-Yao-apron-detw.jpg
Hua-Yao-apron-detw.jpg [ 82.64 KiB | Viewed 6861 times ]
HuaYaoSideDet2w.jpg
HuaYaoSideDet2w.jpg [ 79.31 KiB | Viewed 6861 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Batak Textile
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:42 pm 
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Hallo Udo,

You may like to check a recent post of mine about an ulos ragi hotang / ragi huting similar to yours.
Congratulations on that fine piece of yours.

Best wishes,
Peter

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