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tribaltextiles.info • View topic - Headscarf origins?

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 Post subject: Headscarf origins?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:40 am 
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Posts: 315
I am trying to identify a recently purchased piece, said to be a Miao headscarf, of incredibly fine silk supplementary weaving on cotton. Something in it reminded me of Miao baby carriers coming from the Zhouxi area of Kaili, Guizhou perhaps the inclusion of the silver threads at regular intervals and the insertion of blue and green threads. The following links will take you to examples of the carriers I am thinking about.
viewtopic.php?t=970&highlight=zhouxi
viewtopic.php?t=141&highlight=zhouxi
http://www.tribaltrappings.com/TACH237.php
http://www.tribaltrappings.com/TACH238.php
I have several of these so perhaps a thread with these carriers could be formed with other forum members?

Chris Buckley shows a very similar piece on his website and perhaps he can clarify: http://www.toranatribal.com/MiaoCostume2.html attributed to the Miao from the Yongjia area of Guizhou.
I am not sure where this is exactly as the only Yongjia area with which I am familiar is Yongjia County, Wenzhou in Zhejiang Province? Could it be Rongjia?


Attachments:
Copy of IMG_0041.JPG
Copy of IMG_0041.JPG [ 254.18 KiB | Viewed 17558 times ]


Last edited by iain on Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:30 am 
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Location: Beijing
Hi Iain

I'm afraid I don't have very much firm information on these, I bought several from a Kaili dealer at the same time but I have not subsequently checked the verbal attribution that I was given or found the place on the map. "Yongjia" could very well be "Rongjiang", sometimes it is hard to tell with Guizhou prononciations. I have not seen anything exactly like these in the literature, but I think you are right in saying that Rongjiang supplementary weft work looks similar. Like you I admired the very fine work and unusual coloring. Here is one more example. I too would be interested to know if anyone has more definite information on these ... who and where.

I think it is correct to say they are headscarves, the fold-lines I saw on some pieces were consistent with this.


Attachments:
File comment: headscarf, silk supplementary weft on cotton foundation
CET123-1t.jpg
CET123-1t.jpg [ 277.03 KiB | Viewed 17702 times ]
File comment: detail of headscarf
CET123-2.jpg
CET123-2.jpg [ 146.2 KiB | Viewed 17702 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:43 pm 
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Location: Canterbury, UK


Attachments:
File comment: Ann Goodman's textile
Baibei_w.jpg
Baibei_w.jpg [ 72.77 KiB | Viewed 17680 times ]
File comment: detail of Ann Goodman's textile
Baibeidet_w.jpg
Baibeidet_w.jpg [ 85.82 KiB | Viewed 17680 times ]

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http://www.tribaltextiles.info
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:43 am 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:19 pm 
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Attachments:
Forum-Shidong-Miao ladies.jpg
Forum-Shidong-Miao ladies.jpg [ 77.14 KiB | Viewed 17641 times ]
Mail-TACH213.jpg
Mail-TACH213.jpg [ 73.83 KiB | Viewed 17641 times ]
Mail-TACH214.jpg
Mail-TACH214.jpg [ 77.46 KiB | Viewed 17640 times ]
Mail-TACH215.jpg
Mail-TACH215.jpg [ 68.22 KiB | Viewed 17640 times ]
Mail-TACH215_Detail_1.jpg
Mail-TACH215_Detail_1.jpg [ 87.41 KiB | Viewed 17640 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:22 am
Posts: 68
Location: germany
Wonderful textiles, all of them!
They immediately reminded me of old Swedish textiles and woven bands that have very similar designs. Of course, there is no cultural connection; the similarities result from clever weavers finding satisfaction in what they can do with warp and weft and developing more or less the same patterns, which seem to have an appeal that is independent of the individual culture.
Speculating, I suppose that each culture has different names for design elements that make sense in the culture, but the elements are still similar.


Attachments:
File comment: Woven and colored bands from Dalacarlia and other regions of Sweden - from Nordiska Museet [Stockholm, 1925, my addition]
Title: Textilt Bildverk
utgivet av Emelie von Waltertorff, amanuens vid Nordiska Museet

Bild-17w.jpg
Bild-17w.jpg [ 84.54 KiB | Viewed 17540 times ]
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 Post subject: Headscarf details
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:45 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:30 am
Posts: 315
After my first posting here's hoping these images are OK!
These images are included to show the incredibly fine weaving and the inclusiong of the parallel silver threads which recalled the inclusion of pink/green/red/purple/indigo threads in the baby carriers from Zhouxi. A couple of non-uniform details are also shown - the green threads at the end of the weaving and the incorporation of blue thread in the 'white' band separating the supplementary weft sections.

[I have edited the three images (great shots, Iain, thanks) shown here to reduce them to 600 pix in width and file sizes around 80K. Wide images distort viewing of the forum and I would be very, very grateful if forum members would keep to the 600 px maximum width. Thanks, Pamela]


Attachments:
File comment: Section showing inclusion of blue thread
0047_132w.jpg
0047_132w.jpg [ 55.09 KiB | Viewed 17559 times ]
File comment: Section showing band with inclusion of two silver threads
0045_863w.jpg
0045_863w.jpg [ 82.5 KiB | Viewed 17559 times ]
File comment: End detail showing incorporation of green and silver threads
0044_113w.jpg
0044_113w.jpg [ 78.41 KiB | Viewed 17559 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:46 pm 
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Attachments:
File comment: woven and plaited bands from several regions of Sweden
from Nordiska Museet [Stockholm, 1925, Larry's addition]
Title: Textilt Bildverk
utgivet av Emelie von Waltertorff, amanuens vid Nordiska Museet

Bild-18w.jpg
Bild-18w.jpg [ 79.61 KiB | Viewed 17525 times ]
File comment: textiles from different regions of Sweden
from Nordiska Museet [Stockholm, 1925, Larry's addition]
Title: Textilt Bildverk
utgivet av Emelie von Waltertorff, amanuens vid Nordiska Museet

Bild-19w.jpg
Bild-19w.jpg [ 80.63 KiB | Viewed 17525 times ]
File comment: three runners (? extinct Swedish word), Sweden
from Nordiska Museet [Stockholm, 1925, Larry's addition]
Title: Textilt Bildverk
utgivet av Emelie von Waltertorff, amanuens vid Nordiska Museet

Bild-21w.jpg
Bild-21w.jpg [ 85.46 KiB | Viewed 17525 times ]
File comment: textiles from Skaane, Sweden
from Nordiska Museet [Stockholm, 1925, Larry's addition]
Title: Textilt Bildverk
utgivet av Emelie von Waltertorff, amanuens vid Nordiska Museet

Bild-22w.jpg
Bild-22w.jpg [ 90.25 KiB | Viewed 17525 times ]
File comment: two textiles from Blekinge, Sweden
from Nordiska Museet [Stockholm, 1925, Larry's addition]
Title: Textilt Bildverk
utgivet av Emelie von Waltertorff, amanuens vid Nordiska Museet

Bild-23w.jpg
Bild-23w.jpg [ 80.92 KiB | Viewed 17525 times ]

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http://www.tribaltextiles.info
on-line tribal textiles resource
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:35 pm 
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Location: germany


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:34 am 
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Attachments:
File comment: detail of Dong minority blanket, supplementary weft patterning
CET261-2t.jpg
CET261-2t.jpg [ 251.56 KiB | Viewed 17453 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:33 am
Posts: 155
Location: Beijing


Attachments:
File comment: Detail of a supplementary weft band, said to be Miao from Zhouxi area of Guizhou
CET306-2t.jpg
CET306-2t.jpg [ 229.81 KiB | Viewed 17448 times ]
File comment: Detail of a "brocade" band on a Meifu Li ikat skirt from Hainan
CET236-2t.jpg
CET236-2t.jpg [ 205.93 KiB | Viewed 17448 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:09 am 
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Location: germany


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:23 am 
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Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand


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Forum-Yao skirt Hainan.jpg
Forum-Yao skirt Hainan.jpg [ 96.42 KiB | Viewed 17370 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:56 am 
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Posts: 155
Location: Beijing


Attachments:
File comment: from "Clothings and Ornaments of China's Miao People" page 210
Scarf1.jpg
Scarf1.jpg [ 85.54 KiB | Viewed 17360 times ]
File comment: detail from "Clothings and Ornaments of China's Miao People" page 210
Scarf2.jpg
Scarf2.jpg [ 145.9 KiB | Viewed 17360 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:22 am
Posts: 68
Location: germany
Susan,
Since you even liked the horses, look at this one on a Pazyryk felt (ca. 2500 years old):
http://www.persiancarpetguide.com/sw-as ... Carpet.htm

Textile designs on a loom that only has a few different sheds must be limited by the warp and weft, starting with a simple twill, until someone made the twill slant in the other direction, allowing zigzags and diamonds. and eventually more intricate patterns. Once a weaver had seen what someone else could do, she could figure out how to play with the technique.

You weavers can probably tell how many different sheds one needs to make most of these patterns (how many treadles?). It seems to me that the results have to show great similarities.

Larry


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