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 Post subject: More Li Textiles
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:33 pm
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Location: Los Angeles, California, USA
I wanted to add a few photos of some Li textiles that I have been able to add to my collection in the last couple of years. I really enjoy viewing the other pieces that have been posted on this site, thanks!


Attachments:
li_sarong_2182_ed_210e.jpg
li_sarong_2182_ed_210e.jpg [ 64.31 KiB | Viewed 13232 times ]
li_mini_skirt_2004_ed_258e.jpg
li_mini_skirt_2004_ed_258e.jpg [ 69.67 KiB | Viewed 13232 times ]
li_mini_skirt_1866_ed_605e.jpg
li_mini_skirt_1866_ed_605e.jpg [ 65.69 KiB | Viewed 13232 times ]
li_jacket__1923_edited_112e.jpg
li_jacket__1923_edited_112e.jpg [ 62.89 KiB | Viewed 13232 times ]
li_jacket__2028_edited_157e.jpg
li_jacket__2028_edited_157e.jpg [ 56.73 KiB | Viewed 13232 times ]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:35 pm 
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Location: Canterbury, UK
Mark

Absolutely scrumptious!

Of course I am not surprised that you have some very, very special Li pieces. Thank you SO very much for sharing them with us.

Could I be really greedy and ask for a few detailed shots?

1. li_sarong_2182 - a detail of the procession
2. li_mini_skirt_2004 - a detail of a section of one of the bottom bands
3. li_mini_skirt_1866 - a detail of a section of the bottom band around one of (the series of) 'men' in the wide bottom band. I have not seen one of these skirts with a wide bottom band and with such large figures - this one really 'wows' me!
4. li_jacket__1923 - does this blouse include beadwork? I am very interested in the embroidery rectangles immediately under the sleeves. Could we have a close-up of this section? Is it just embroidery or embroidery and beads?
5. li_jacket__2028 - some nice dragons. I haven't seen a (Run/Ba sa dung) blouse with the bands over the shoulders. Are they embroidery or weaving? I note that the sleeve bands are each different.

I don't suppose that you have information about any of them? They all look special as if they were celebration pieces i.e. weddings, other festivals.

I know that you have the 1938 National Geographic with the article by Leonard Clark on his trek on Hainan among the 'Big Knot Lois' (the Ba sa dung (Run dialect)). I find it amazing to believe that such beautiful and fine work has been created under the conditions that he describes in that article. http://www.tribaltextiles.info/forum/Ba-Sa-Dung-Li.htm

Thanks again for a spendid show of textiles.

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 Post subject: Details of Li Textiles
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:44 am 
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Hi Pamela,
Here are some details you requested.
Regards,
Mark


Attachments:
li_sarong__2182b_ed_144e.jpg
li_sarong__2182b_ed_144e.jpg [ 59.2 KiB | Viewed 13167 times ]
li_sarong__2182c_ed_186e.jpg
li_sarong__2182c_ed_186e.jpg [ 64.32 KiB | Viewed 13167 times ]

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 Post subject: More Details
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:48 am 
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Hi Pamela,
I was having a problem submitting the photos so on my third try I decided to just go with two images to see if it worked. So I will submit the rest in smaller groups to be sure they get through.

I do not know much more about the Li pieces than anyone else does, but I was told the Sarongs with the bands of figures are from the Ha-Li group and could be 100 years old or more. Comparing them to 19th century Tapis-Sarongs from the Lampung district of South Sumatra, I certainly can believe they could be that old.

Regards,
Mark


Attachments:
File comment: Detail of the main figure at the bottom of the mini skirt
Li Mini Skirt #1866c_edited.jpg
Li Mini Skirt #1866c_edited.jpg [ 59.68 KiB | Viewed 13163 times ]

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 Post subject: More Li Details
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:50 am 
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Location: Los Angeles, California, USA
The details of the bottom and side panels of the Li Jacket with bead trim


Attachments:
li_jacket__1923b_ed_148e.jpg
li_jacket__1923b_ed_148e.jpg [ 63.41 KiB | Viewed 13159 times ]
li_jacket__1923c_ed_108e.jpg
li_jacket__1923c_ed_108e.jpg [ 65.23 KiB | Viewed 13159 times ]

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 Post subject: More Li textile details
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:52 am 
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Here are the details of the Li Jacket with the vertical banding. Those bands are loom woven strips that were added on.


Attachments:
li_jacket__2028b_ed_553e.jpg
li_jacket__2028b_ed_553e.jpg [ 57.14 KiB | Viewed 13157 times ]
li_jacket__2028c_ed_732e.jpg
li_jacket__2028c_ed_732e.jpg [ 60.87 KiB | Viewed 13157 times ]

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 Post subject: More Li Textiles
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:54 am 
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Here is another one of the Li mini-skirts with the bold figures.


Attachments:
li_mini_skirt__2217_ed_166e.jpg
li_mini_skirt__2217_ed_166e.jpg [ 61.52 KiB | Viewed 13168 times ]
li_mini_skrt__2217c_ed_164e.jpg
li_mini_skrt__2217c_ed_164e.jpg [ 60.85 KiB | Viewed 13167 times ]

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 Post subject: MOre Li Textiles
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:56 am 
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Another Ha-Li Sarong


Attachments:
li_sarong__2216_ed_149e.jpg
li_sarong__2216_ed_149e.jpg [ 59.99 KiB | Viewed 13163 times ]
li_sarong__2216b_ed_209e.jpg
li_sarong__2216b_ed_209e.jpg [ 66.86 KiB | Viewed 13163 times ]
li_sarong__2216c_ed_127e.jpg
li_sarong__2216c_ed_127e.jpg [ 67.64 KiB | Viewed 13163 times ]

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 Post subject: More Li Texiles
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:58 am 
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Yet another Ha-Li Sarong


Attachments:
li_sarong__2215_ed-1_742e.jpg
li_sarong__2215_ed-1_742e.jpg [ 61.33 KiB | Viewed 13163 times ]
li_sarong__2215b_ed_951e.jpg
li_sarong__2215b_ed_951e.jpg [ 59.37 KiB | Viewed 13163 times ]

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 Post subject: One last Li Textile
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:01 am 
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Another Li Jacket


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li_jacket__1924_ed_677e.jpg
li_jacket__1924_ed_677e.jpg [ 56.06 KiB | Viewed 13157 times ]
li_jacket__1924b_ed_513e.jpg
li_jacket__1924b_ed_513e.jpg [ 60.52 KiB | Viewed 13157 times ]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:42 pm
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Location: Canterbury, UK
Mark

I feel as if someone has just knocked all the breath out of me! These are fantastic textiles!

Thank you very much indeed for taking all that trouble to photograph them - including the extra details that I asked for, and then some! The reason you probably had some difficulty posting the photos is that there is a 5 photo cap on any one message (unless it happens to be me as Administrator either directly or by editing).

I think it gives us all something to aspire to! I thought I had some quite fine Li textiles until I saw yours. Have you had them for very long? I feel that you may well have found some of them quite early on. November 2001 was my 'road to Damascus' when I saw my first Li textile but didn't know what it was. At that time (in Kaili) I could have bought lots of Li textiles, mainly Ba sa dung (Run dialect) skirts and blouses for relatively reasonable prices. There were one or two Meifu Li headcloths but I was not offered any Ha or Meifu Li ikat woven skirts on that visit. I don't think that the Li textiles had quite taken off then - they were already attracting some attention by their quality but the 'buzz' hadn't started...I think. Olivier posted a request for help for information on Li textiles in June 02 on the old forum as he had bought some Li textiles in Chiang Mai.

Many thanks once more for sharing...

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 Post subject: Li Textiles
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:13 pm 
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Hi Pamela,
I bought most of these over the last few years, one here, another there, type of thing. Unfortunately, I let a few other really good ones go in the beginning as I didn't know what was going on or what quality levels existed at first. I think I bought my first examples here in the States around 2001 and then by 2002 I started looking for them overseas. Since then others have come to me from various sources. I tend to gravitate to these types shown: the jackets, the mini-skirts, and the sarongs with figures. I also like the ikat sarongs that remind me of Flores textiles, but I sold off the only really great ones in the beginning before I really understood what I was looking at.

I still have some other good (but more typical) examples that I am selling off, but I have decided to only buy exceptional pieces and hold on to them for awhile until all of this finally shakes out (as it usually does). Personally, I love these Li textiles and have no problem living with them for now.

I have collected in so many areas over the last 30 years and only Central Asian ikats, and textiles/beadwork from Borneo, Sumatra, Toraja, and Timor have really held my interest over the long haul. However, most of those areas have been cleaned out of the best examples years ago and it cost some real money to purchase the quality that I would be interested in today. These Li pieces have been an exciting exception as this is the first "new" area that has attracted me in years and great pieces at reasonable prices are still available (to some degree). Plus, I love the learning process when new material hits the market and no one knows what is really out there.

Great fun!!!

Mark

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 Post subject: Weird Li Factoid
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:21 pm 
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Hi Pamela,
I forgot to mention that I have recently read a book on the Tangkhul Naga, written by a Tangkhul. The author has tried to work out the history of the Tangkhul (one of the larger groups, mostly found on the Burmese side of the border). Of course, he claims the Tangkhul are the original Naga and everyone else split off from that core group. He mentions that the Tangkhul migrated through Burma, by way of Southern China, coming down from the central plains of China. The odd bit is that he claims that the Tangkhul are decended from one of the Li groups on Hainan Island! It seems they moved south, then onto Hainan, and then some split off, moved back into southern China, and then moved westward to Burma and then up into hills to become the current Tangkhul Naga. He sites all sorts of oral history, with names, etc. Interesting...
Mark

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 5:17 pm 
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Mark,

Thanks for the further info. The book you refer to about Tangkhul Naga and possible past migrations of the Li sounds interesting.

I have been having a day taking photographs of some of my Li textiles and I thought I would add a couple of textiles here (a bit brave of me considering the very fine ones you have posted!) First I am going to post a Ha Li skirt (usually thought to be for a wedding) - and, I think from the 'Traditional Culture of Li Ethnic Group' these wedding skirts are of the 'Hayling' Ha Li and they come from Sanya and Lingshui.


Attachments:
File comment: Ha Li skirt
IMGP1555e.jpg
IMGP1555e.jpg [ 60.4 KiB | Viewed 13112 times ]
File comment: detail of embroidered figures on the front of a Ha Li skirt
IMGP1559e.jpg
IMGP1559e.jpg [ 63.7 KiB | Viewed 13112 times ]
File comment: detail of embroidered figures and animals on the back of a Ha Li skirt
IMGP1564e.jpg
IMGP1564e.jpg [ 62.74 KiB | Viewed 13112 times ]

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Last edited by Pamela on Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 5:27 pm 
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I am going to add another skirt which is probably an 'every day' skirt by the same Ha group as made the beautiful wedding skirts. I found this interesting because you can see how the images are built up.

At first sight of the detail of the figure you might think that it was created by supplementary weft. However, examination of the back of the textile strongly suggests embroidery. On the wedding skirts such a figure would be additionally outlined in embroidery.

I have added two details of the reverse of two motifs illustrating that the 'supplementary weft' is probably embroidered on finished cloth and not executed as part of the original weaving.

There are thin stripes of very simple ikat in both this skirt and the wedding skirt.


Attachments:
File comment: Ha Li skirt
IMGP1521e.jpg
IMGP1521e.jpg [ 62.17 KiB | Viewed 13021 times ]
File comment: embroidered detail on a Ha Li skirt
IMGP1525e.jpg
IMGP1525e.jpg [ 57.74 KiB | Viewed 13021 times ]
File comment: detail of reverse of motif - probably embroidered
IMGP1837e.jpg
IMGP1837e.jpg [ 52.22 KiB | Viewed 13021 times ]
File comment: detail of reverse of motifs - probably embroidered
IMGP1840e.jpg
IMGP1840e.jpg [ 61.53 KiB | Viewed 13021 times ]

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Last edited by Pamela on Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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