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 Post subject: textile identification
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 11
Location: cayman islands
Hello everyone..........thanks to you all I now know that I have a Ge Jia Babycarrier........... I was wondering if you all could help me out with this piece...........I bought it just outside of Dali this past October..........I asked everytime I bought a piece what minority group it was from but pretty much always got the same answer........ Miao..........I know you all will be able to point me in the right direction.............

Rachel - I have taken the liberty of adding a smaller version of your photo of the Miao babycarrier direct to your post to make the thread run more smoothly. You can always go back into any post you have made as long as you are logged in and 'edit'. As Administrator I can jump in and try and fix things as well. Pamela


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:55 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 6:34 pm
Posts: 393
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Actually, Rachel, you have a Flowered Hmong (Miao) carrier from Zi-jing County in west central Guizhou Province. I have an old one that is very similar to yours. I'm sorry that I cannot point you in the direction of any printed reference, but I'm sure there are others in the Forum with much larger libraries of material on China/Miao textiles. FYI the Gei-jia subgroup of the Miao are in Huang-ping County in southeastern Guizhou. Your carrier is done in very fine chainstitch embroidery and bordered with many rows of folded and stitched fabric, as is mine. I'll try to photograph it and get it up tomorrow. There is a wonderful book on baby carriers available thru the Textile Museum in Washington DC: Bonding Via Baby Carriers; The Art & Soul of the Miao & Dong People by Les Enphants Co. 2001. Unfortunately, it does not feature a carrier like ours, but does have two from this area and there are similarities in layout and design, but not technique.

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http://www.tribaltrappings.com
http://tribaltrappings.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:27 am
Posts: 124
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Susan- you are absolutely right on the attribution of Rachel's Babycarrier. It's a pretty one. Thanks, Rachel.

Could you give some details on the babycarrier book. bhotos, pages. breadth of subject.

Thanks in advance.

Bill


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 11
Location: cayman islands
Thanks Susan...........and thanks Bill for posting your picture of the Ge Jia baby carrier..........I have one that is very similar to yours and being a novice I did not know where that piece was from either............any cleaning tips for the Flowered Hmong Baby carrier...........Rachel


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:42 pm
Posts: 1989
Location: Canterbury, UK
The book has both English and Chinese script (traditional I would think as it is published out of Taiwan). Some of the text is printed on coloured pages and I find the black on bright red/red on black rather a challenge but at least it is in English. There is a forward from Maryta Laumann, Prof of Dept of Textiles and Clothing at Fu Jen Catholic University which is in Taiwan and the authors have Taiwan/US links.

The book is full of good quality photos. The book does not particularly attribute the photos (although there is some reference to location) to different minority groups by the photos but talks much more about the meaning of individual decoration on the baby carrier. There is actually one with applique and embroidery very similar to Rachel's (pae 45) which talks of 'Tai-jiang County, Guizhou'. However, at the back of the book is an Index with a thumnail of each babycarrier and as much info as they had on each one for location where collected and group.

If, as I am, you are fascinated by baby carriers then I think it is worth adding to the library - and I have a definite weakness for excellent quality photos! 168 pages.

Full details:

Bonding via Baby Carriers: The Art & Soul of the Miao and Dong People published in 2001 by Les Enphants Co ISBN 957-744-658-2 It says 'For Book Order Contact lin@uindy.edu or www.lesenphants.com.tw but I can't get the website link to work properly - it is a mail link and you need log in details.

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http://www.tribaltextiles.info
on-line tribal textiles resource


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:27 am
Posts: 124
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Rachel-

Ordinarily, I advise people to leave their textiles alone. However, your baby carrier is in great shape, and certainly was made with the thought of the piece being subjected to continued washing. I never wash unless I really can't stand the soiling.
.
I would wash delicately with woolite in cold water and dry on a towel. Don't try to scrub, just soak and mildly agitate. However, with this baby carrier, you could probably wash in washing machine, if the piece is used. I wouldn't though.

I try to treat every piece as extremely delicate, and I never get in trouble. If you are worried, don't do anything.

Bill


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 Post subject: washing and drying
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:31 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2003 4:52 am
Posts: 162
Location: California, USA
Hi Rachel,

If you decide to use Woolite, be sure that is the one NOT for wool. I believe there are two products by that name now, and the original formula is really far too harsh to use on cotton. I've often wondered how the women who make these wonderful textiles for themselves and their families (and of course to sell) wash their cloths. After giving this much thought, I've decided they don't. Which is why when we get these beautiful textiles, the first thing we think of is how to clean them.

I used Dryel (the home dry cleaning stuff you put into a bag and then into a home dryer) to get the stains off an antique pha biang, and it was ok. No dry cleaner in the East Bay would touch it.

Also, tomorrow night is the semi-annual party for SEasian linguists, and I'll check around for information. Alas, it may be in Chinese.

I hope this information is helpful.

Sandie


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:05 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 6:34 pm
Posts: 393
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Rachel- Lots of good advice about To Clean or Not To Clean. Personally, I do not wash pieces unless absolutely necessary. Too often the dyes are fugitive, even in cold water. Your carrier looks to be quite clean; if subjected to water, some dyes might discolor the white borders. Also, often a water stain will form on solid, light colored areas and make an ugly discoloration if it part of it gets wet, but another does not, or if it dries unevenly. This is especially likely with silk.

Regarding finding Les Enphants Co.; try Googling them and I think the website is listed. Their book is quite beautiful; clearly this is a passion with this family (3 generations of professional women). I found that it also included some welcome technical information such as the fact that many of the Dong carriers are embroidered, not woven, which is very surprising considering the fine precision of the work. They are also good about showing exactly where the pieces came from and include a map. I love the index with the color thumbnails and additional information. Well worth $30.

I will try to include the photos of the Flowered Hmong carrier I mentioned, tho I might need Pamela's help! Thanks for getting us all going on such a variety of subjects.


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Susan Stem

http://www.tribaltrappings.com
http://tribaltrappings.blogspot.com/
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 Post subject: baby carrier
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 11
Location: cayman islands
Thanks for all your advice Susan.............my baby carrier seems to have been washed before or simply got wet as the darker dyes did find their way unto the white border.........I have washed other pieces and never managed to get the darker black die out of where ever it had settled......
I thought maybe there was a secret technique that I did not know about but it seems we are all in the same boat............I have also ordered the book you mentioned to me from the Washington Textile Museum........
I have a fondness for baby carriers as the first SE Asian textile that I bought was a Hmong baby carrier which I bought in Luang Prabang four years ago..........thanks also for sharing the pictures of your babycarrier....
Rachel


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 Post subject: ?Zhijing? Wenshan County
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:30 am
Posts: 315
Hi Susan
I was searching the forum for Zhijin baby carriers and came back to your example here. You state that this carrier is from Zijing County and pamela concurs. I have several carriers like this all collected from the area around Guangnan town located in Yunnan's Wenshan Zhuang and Miao Autonomous Prefecture. Was your carrier actually collected in Zhijin, and if so, is there a similar Miao group actually living there? On page 146 of the National Museum of Prehistory "Baby Carriers" is a similar example, with ties intact, attributed to "Yunnan, Guangnan".
Looking closely at your carrier it appears that the backing and border panels are missing? In the examples both I and Rachel have the front border is formed by a black and white cotton panels. In my examples the padded backing is of handwoven indigo dyed hemp.


Attachments:
File comment: Miao baby carrier
Yunnan
Wenshan Zhuang and Miao Autonomous Prefecture
Guangnan County
Guangnan Town

BC.M.07.28.jpg
BC.M.07.28.jpg [ 99.85 KiB | Viewed 11739 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 6:34 pm
Posts: 393
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Hi Iain-
Many thanks for your questions. I seem to recall that my source gave me this attribution, several years ago, as I say that I have no documentation. However, I do not think that source field collected the piece, so it is entirely open to question. You are very likely correct, or there are circumstances of which neither of us are aware, such as a farflung village of Yunnanese Miao in Zijing County. I honestly do not know, and certainly am willing to defer to the lovely new baby carrier book, which has an example quite similar in technique, design, and style to the pieces discussed. Thanks for keeping me on my toes!

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http://www.tribaltrappings.com
http://tribaltrappings.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:45 am
Posts: 142
The book "Bonding via Baby Carriers" is available through The Textile Museum in Washington DC. They have a store website with a shopping cart.

Steven

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www.stevenqfrost.net/gallery


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 Post subject: Another baby carrier
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:30 am
Posts: 315
The following link takes you to similar baby carrier.
http://www.tribaltextiles.info/community/viewtopic.php?t=316&highlight=flower+miao


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 Post subject: Miao baby carrier
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:30 am
Posts: 315
This was amongst the first Miao carriers I collected having been attracted to the strong contrasting panels and bold embroidery. Unlike the earlier carrier I posted here where the floral/sun/bronze drum(?) motifs were worked in chain stitch - the carrier shown here uses couched white, red, and dark navy gimp thread to render the motifs. The red and light blue color infill work is quite interesting as this is not embroidered but done in gimp thread as well.


Attachments:
File comment: Miao Baby carrier
Yunnan
Wenshan Zhuang and Miao Autonomous Prefecture
Guangnan Co.
Guangnan
BC.M.07.4

BC.M.07.4.jpg
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File comment: Detail: Couched Gimp Floral/sun/bronze drum(?) motif
BC.M.07.4

Detail.jpg
Detail.jpg [ 153.82 KiB | Viewed 11604 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:30 am
Posts: 315
Just for clarity of comparison here is a close up of the chain stitch used on the earlier baby carrier I posted. This is actually similar to the one Susan posted. Also Susan I wonder about the orientation of this carrier. The tie remnants on all these carriers I have appear on the broader, more detailed embroidered panel surrounded by the black border. The smaller, single embroidered panel surrounded by applique strips and then the white border hangs to the bottom.


Attachments:
File comment: Detail: Chain stitch
Miao baby carrier
Yunnan
Wenshan Zhuang and Miao Autonomous Prefecture
Guangnan County
Guangnan Town

Chain stitch detail.jpg
Chain stitch detail.jpg [ 121.6 KiB | Viewed 11600 times ]
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